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Dogecoin market manipulation?

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Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#151

Post by shiftpgdn »

mcphilip wrote: post #91
smtddr wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I think it's safe to say that there are some participants in crypto currencies making massive percentage gains using lessons learned on Wall Street. Understatement of the year and it's only January. ;) That's pretty much everything of crypto coins right now, especially alt-coins(any coin that isn't bitcoin). The inexperienced people prone to fear-driven reaction are getting fleeced.

>Understatement of the year and it's only January. ;) Yeah, an understatement for sure. I can only imagine what will be afoot in December... Wild guess: ransomware used to drive up the price of an alt-coin.

Isn't this already happening with cryptolocker? I had read the cryptolocker wallet has received something like 23 million USD worth of bitcoin at $900/btc.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#154

Post by dragontamer »

cookingrobot wrote: post #92
sliverstorm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investing has a luck component to it as well. The way I like to think of it is, it's gambling when your expected rate of return is negative or zero. It's investing when it is positive. This is why a gambler is gambling, but a casino is investing/running a business.

Gambling and market speculation (and even theft) are related in that they're all 0 sum games. Every dollar you make is a dollar someone else wishes they hadn't lost. Investing is different in that when you win and earn a return, nobody feels that they lost.

Indeed.

The best example would be bonds. If you buy the California Bonds... the people of California may get a High-Speed Railroad within a year. They will not be able to accomplish the building of the High Speed Railroad without investor support.

30 years from now, the state of California will finish paying off your bonds. And you'll make some money.

Win/Win for everyone. Investors make money, and California citizens get High Speed Railroads today... instead of 30 years from now.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#155

Post by dragontamer »

joosters wrote: post #100
jbellis wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crucial distinction is that buying shares is not a zero sum game; it's possible for all investors to "win." This is not the case in gambling or commodities markets; for me to win, someone else has to lose.

Why is that different from share deals? There's a buyer and a seller... if one of them wins, the other by definition must lose. Call whatever you do 'investing' if it makes you happy, but as I said before, you can replicate financial 'investments' with spread-betting 'bets' and you will make the same gains and losses.

The #1 trade you make in investing is trading "money today" for "money tomorrow". The specifics of how to trade "today's money" for "tomorrow's money" differ in the forms of bonds, stocks, or options... but its all the same.

Someone wants money today, and is willing to give up more money tomorrow for that money today.

If it weren't for big stock IPOs, Angel Investors and Venture Capitalists wouldn't invest into startups. Not everyone is looking to hold stock for 20 or 30 years... especially Angel Investors who are addicted to helping out small startups.

Buying stock from an Angel Investor who is IPOing allows the Angel Investor to invest into another small company, and transfers the ownership of a (used to be) startup, to your control. IE: Facebook and Twitter. Angel Investors would rather own a smaller, more volatile company... while the typical investor would rather own the bigger, more stable companies for their retirement.

Its not necessarily about "winning" and "losing". If an early Facebook investor liquidates his $$$ in Facebook, it allows him to help out another company. He doesn't care how Facebook does in the future, because he's far more interested in helping startups.

Again, its win/win for everyone. Everyone benefits when the Venture Capitalists sell off their stocks to the Stock Market.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#157

Post by golden_apples »

im3w1l wrote: post #123
joosters wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that different from share deals? There's a buyer and a seller... if one of them wins, the other by definition must lose. Call whatever you do 'investing' if it makes you happy, but as I said before, you can replicate financial 'investments' with spread-betting 'bets' and you will make the same gains and losses.

>if one of them wins, the other by definition must lose. No. If you sell shares to pay for living expenses you do not lose. If you dilute your shares to raise capital to make your remaining shares worth more you do not lose.

The analog to that goes something like: all participants in a hand of blackjack can win. And even the house doesn't ”lose”: it makes an expected payout, which incentivizes the players to continue in the game, which over time will enrich the casino more.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#158

Post by GFischer »

felipelalli wrote: post #113

"Bitcoin é foda, o resto é moda." a rhyme in Portuguese which means "Bitcoin is awesome, the rest is fashion."

Well, "foda" means something else entirely in Portuguese, tough I can't claim to understand the meaning of the quote :) .

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=foda

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#159

Post by GFischer »

wmf wrote: post #122
Marazan wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes Bitcoin and Litecoin not scam coins?

There's an argument that the world needs one cryptocurrency but not two. Therefore the first one (Bitcoin) is not a scam, but all others are.

Your second point doesn't necessarily derive from the first.

I can understand standardizing on only one cryptocurrency, but why not one that addresses many of Bitcoins' limitations?

I'm not saying it should be Dogecoin, actually I hope not, but it could be.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#160

Post by oelmekki »

plantain wrote: post #132

It seems quite likely the dogecoin reddit moderators are involved with this due to absolute radio silence about market manipulation on the subreddit.

To be fair, people on /r/dogecoin don't care much about day to day value, they're in for the long run and the fun.
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