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Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

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Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#151

Post by dionidium »

joshAg wrote: post #110
petercooper wrote: post #50

This is one of the things I'm jealous of America for coming from a British perspective: that is, a wide variety of cities being technologically advanced and good for startups, tech and businesses generally. Think Austin, think Raleigh-Durhan, think Philadelphia, think Seattle.. Everything in the UK is so grotesquely skewed towards London when it comes to modern tech. Some other cities aren't entirely horrible (Manche…

just to throw some figures at you about how big st. louis is or isn't: > As of the 2010 census, the population was 319,294, and a 2012 estimate put the population at 318,172,[6] making it the 58th-largest U.S. city in 2012. The metropolitan St. Louis area, known as Greater St. Louis (CSA), is the 19th-largest metropolitan area in the United States with a population of 2,900,605. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis

And I'll be the annoying St. Louisan who feels compelled to put these numbers into some context for what feels like the billionth time.

St. Louis City is entirely independent from the surrounding St. Louis County and covers an exceptionally small area by the standards of most big cities (~66 sq/mi). Some similar cities have addressed this by merging with their surrounding county (Indianapolis, for example, which is about 368 sq/mi), but even those that haven't (e.g. Kansas City) still cover a much larger portion of their region (316 sq/mi for KC).

It's very easy to exit the city-proper in St. Louis and not feel at all as though you've left the core of the city. The inner-ring suburbs are quite urban and, while the distinction between them and the City itself is the source of much local posturing, it's a misleading delineation if you're trying to figure out just how big St. Louis really is.

(As a side note, this way of dividing up the region also has a significant effect on the City's infamous crime statistics, for reasons that should be pretty obvious with a little bit of thought. That is to say, if you define almost any city as only its most inner core, then you're going to end up with much higher crime rates than if you include its suburbs. And if you're comparing one city that doesn't include its suburbs with cities that predominantly do, then, well, you get the idea.)

In other words, the larger MSA/CSA numbers more accurately reflect the relative size of both St. Louis's urban core and the surrounding region.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#152

Post by hussong »

carlob wrote: post #134
mixmastamyk wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more typically called Panini, which is Italian for "$9 grilled-cheese."

Panino is Italian for sandwich, it literally means small bread. Panini is something I first experienced in France, where it's made with a special semi-raw bread. I've never seen anything quite like it in Italy, though.

I'll bite: panini is simply the plural of panino.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#153

Post by dionidium »

hapless wrote: post #4
randallsquared wrote: post #3

I was in St. Louis for Strange Loop 2013, and I was pretty astonished at how nice (and uncrowded) the downtown was. I asked about it at http://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/1mlum2/whats_wrong_... and got some interesting responses. The "what's wrong with..." was in the sense of "surely it can't be as great as it seems here?", by the way.

Most midwestern cities have no pedestrian traffic downtown. That is perfectly normal across much of America. In a typical midwestern city, anyone who can afford it commutes to the central business district by car. They live, shop, and eat in the suburbs. They use their cars for all of these activities. The C.B.D. ends up deserted at night when the office workers leave. Any successful night-time businesses have parkin…

> The reddit thread mentions very specific districts where you find pedestrians.

I was one of the people who mentioned some of those places in that thread. There are such places in St. Louis, but Strange Loop (which I also attended) is not held near any of them. Most of the stretch talked about in that thread, from 9th and Market up to Union Station, is kind of a pedestrian wasteland (for lots of reasons related to density, failed urban renewal projects, and so on). Nobody in St. Louis goes to Union Station anymore; it's a complete failure of a project. But, likewise, nobody here would use it as any sort of example in a conversation about foot traffic in the city.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#154

Post by bosie »

noarchy wrote: post #125
aarondf wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment about "artisinal grilled cheese" earned my upvote. Who knew such a thing existed? Better yet: why?

Some people are looking for places to spend their relatively-high incomes. Ditto for other, oddball things that have come along, of late, like super-expensive shaving equipment (first thing that came to mind).

can you link/name some of that super-expensive shaving equipment please?

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#156

Post by blario »

bosie wrote: post #154
noarchy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are looking for places to spend their relatively-high incomes. Ditto for other, oddball things that have come along, of late, like super-expensive shaving equipment (first thing that came to mind).

can you link/name some of that super-expensive shaving equipment please?

I suspect he/she is referring to Bevel. Although I think the commenter fails to realize the value add of the product.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#157

Post by csdreamer7 »

protomyth wrote: post #122
mitchty wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get the aversion to cold weather either. It is part of the reason us "northerners" read so much. When it gets to -24F out, aka you can get frostbite underneath clothes, you tend to say well lets just sit inside and do stuff or read/etc... Cold isn't bad, cold+wind, that is the killer. I met a woman from socal that moved here recently. It was about 20F out and all I had on was a sweater. She looked like…

Yep, cold + wind is what kills you. I've always said North Dakota is quite good at killing the stupid or unlucky[1]. Oil has brought a lot of people from southern states and I worry a lot about their safety. This weekend we should hit -26F before wind chill off a 20-30 mph wind. Good time to stay in and code. 1) for the love of what you hold holy do not go too fast on icy roads (that means you SUV driver). One unluck…

Why Toronto? Why not Vancouver? I've never been to Canada but they do seem to have a growing tech scene.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#158

Post by bosie »

blario wrote: post #156
bosie wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you link/name some of that super-expensive shaving equipment please?

I suspect he/she is referring to Bevel. Although I think the commenter fails to realize the value add of the product.

Thanks, didn't know about Bevel. What is the value added by Bevel? Looks like a regular safety razor.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#159

Post by wavefunction »

rebelidealist wrote: post #15
zinssmeister wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"sun tax" is cheaper in Texas. It's zero as in 0% income tax.

There is a hefty sun burn tax in Texas. 100 degree weather for sometimes 30 straight days. May - Sept are all 90 degrees+ without fail. The winter is colder than the bay area.

30 days? The summer before last was 90+ days of 100+ F temps. This is Austin, TX, I'm speaking of.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#160

Post by icantthinkofone »

bzalasky wrote: post #48
slm_HN wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this isn't exactly the best metric, but the demand for programmers in St. Louis seems very low. When I look at Craigslist I see a couple Java jobs, a couple PHP jobs and even one godforsaken VB.net job. Even Jeff Atwood doesn't use VB.net. So I'm doubtful that it would be easier to keep the contracts coming in while in St. Louis.

Craigslist doesn't hold the same clout outside of the Bay Area in my experience. Almost never the best place to look for anything.

This is true. Craigslist posters are typically looking to get someone dirt cheap here. The real job listings for here are on Monster.
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