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To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

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Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#151

Post by nthrow »

olefoo wrote: post #3

There is nothing about programming computers that is gender specific; in fact it seems kind of weird and awkward that we have to discuss this at all. Given that so many of the foundational figures of the field ( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. ) were female, the fact that programming and IT became an almost entirely male-dominated profession is suspicious, and should make us question the attitudes and social constru…

Before the dotcom era and the mainstreaming of geek chic, programming used to be considered pretty uncool. Men and women who went into it were seen as nerds. For women, more so than men, finding a mate has been seen as part of being able to survive comfortably. So women stayed away from the stigma of programming, lest it lessen their attractiveness. Now, after things reversed and geek chic became mainsteam, the profession's seen as cool. Other professions seen as less cool (trades for example) don't seem to be the targets of the diversity lobby.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#152

Post by JonnieCache »

Zombieball wrote: post #25
notastartup wrote: post #7

To the Boys of HackerNews: I am a Male Founder who Codes but no one cares because there's too many of us and that makes us not at all interesting. Have women have ever been robbed of being able to code like voting? Why does it receive so much attention? What adversity did they need to overcome to be where they are? Is it physical like someone who suffers from carpal tunnel syndrome or glaucoma overcoming their disabi…

Unfortunately I believe there are gender stereo types in our culture which make many men view women as inferior coders (both in the workplace situation and an interview environment) simply because they are female. A situation where I have experienced this first hand is where a fellow SDE (female) colleague by chance happened to sit at a desk next to one of the VPs at our organization. Many people instinctively though…

>Not trying to sound like a feminist (I am far from one) but I believe what women are being robbed of is 'equality'.

Does not compute.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#153

Post by tomp »

ps4fanboy wrote: post #18
olefoo wrote: post #3

There is nothing about programming computers that is gender specific; in fact it seems kind of weird and awkward that we have to discuss this at all. Given that so many of the foundational figures of the field ( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. ) were female, the fact that programming and IT became an almost entirely male-dominated profession is suspicious, and should make us question the attitudes and social constru…

I think for a long time programming has been presented as very hostile to work life balance, I had read about examples in high school like horror stories of crunch time. I think this does a lot to discourage women and men. My brother in law is doing programming at the same University that I did and the class sizes are 1/5th what they were when I was there.

Really? I would imagine it's exactly the opposite - it's one of the rare professions that can earn you a livable salary without working overtime/two jobs. Though, maybe if one extrapolates about the entire profession from the few famous startups (and movies about them), you're quite correct.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#154

Post by _bfhp »

rimantas wrote: post #150
primitivesuave wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying all males put on pseudo-masculine efforts, I'm saying it only takes one kid who makes an inappropriate joke like changing "public void" to "pubic void" when we're doing a code review. In such a situation, the boy will suppress a smile while he innocently exclaims he made a typo, while his friends all giggle innocuously. If you don't work with kids, you will not fully understand how the adolescent mind…

> Girls simply don't find stupidity that funny This is gold. Almost as "girls cannot code".

What do you mean by that? OP was describing what they saw in real life.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#155

Post by CJefferson »

jmnicolas wrote: post #17
notastartup wrote: post #7

To the Boys of HackerNews: I am a Male Founder who Codes but no one cares because there's too many of us and that makes us not at all interesting. Have women have ever been robbed of being able to code like voting? Why does it receive so much attention? What adversity did they need to overcome to be where they are? Is it physical like someone who suffers from carpal tunnel syndrome or glaucoma overcoming their disabi…

Yes exactly. I'm a bit fed up with people advocating more women in . As far as I can tell these same people don't complain that teachers and nurses jobs are mainly occupied by women. Everybody seem to agree that a nursing job is not attractive for most men. Maybe the reason that women are few in tech is because these professions are not attractive to them.

> As far as I can tell these same people don't complain that teachers and nurses jobs are mainly occupied by women.

THIS COMES UP EVERY SINGLE TIME THIS TYPE OF THING COMES UP. PEOPLE DO HARD AT GETTING MEN INTO WOMEN-DOMINATED PROFESSIONS SUCH AS TEACHING AND NURSING. I'M WRITING THIS IN CAPITAL LETTERS IN THE HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL STOP BLOODY SAYING THIS EVERY BLOODY TIME!

Bah.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#156

Post by tomp »

[deleted] wrote: post #96
alan_cx wrote: post #47

Tongue in cheek, but I think there might be a point here struggling to see the light of day... Why? I mean, why would women want to get into coding? If one is not already working with computers, from the outside world, its a crappy job, and the money isn't better than many other things. Not to mention the insane hours culture. Women have a clean sheet choice. Why work in an office, killing your brain on hugely comple…

[deleted]

> Don't become entrepreneurs. All the money, fame, and the joy of owning your own company is just ~terrible~.

I think that a generally good advice, not just for "the Ladies" you refer to. Most businesses fail, many entrepreneurs burn out, and attributing money and fame to startup owners is caused by the survivorship bias.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#157

Post by nthrow »

_bfhp wrote: post #148
nthrow wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cherry picking incidents involving the actions of disturbed individuals to attempt to smear a multifaceted movement is intellectually dishonest. That's like claiming all Muslims are terrorists because some Muslims are.

"Disturbed individuals"? Did you read the articles? The people being describes are the leaders of the "movement", like Elam. The "movement" obviously encourages the behavior being described -- meanwhile, groups like CAIR work hard to address the popular image of the terrorist Muslim. Where is the CAIR of "men's rights" I wonder

There are some Muslim leaders that express disturbing things as well. Once again, this does not make them the voice of mainstream Islam. If you actually visit a large men's rights community, like http://reddit.com/r/mensrights, you'll find that some women participate in discussion as well and the men are not the rape-happy bugaboos that many paint MRAs in general to be.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#158

Post by yeukhon »

_bfhp wrote: post #144
yeukhon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is "telling" girls to do anything I did not say a gun was pointing at the girls to force them to program. If low female population in the tech sector is due to the lack of resource and the stereotyped masculine geek image, then how does inviting girls to an all-girl programming class help them in the long run? If we want to minimize stereotype, and if the stereotype has to do with gender, then we need to educa…

I agree that these classes should not be touted as "the solution", especially when the problem has not really even been articulated. But I'm of the opinion that women need all the help they can get financially, and so organizations offering resources to women for a good profession are doing good work. You may not see it that way, and I'm not going to try to sway you. Increasingly many social scientists are thinking a…

Regarding social construction, no I haven't heard of it yet. I will take a look at that. Thank you.

I think we have reached a good discussion here. I do agree with you on "getting every help" they need, except, I just don't think it's a good idea to call for "hire more women" (some people literally turn having more women in tech into hiring more women). We are all for a better world.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#159

Post by JetSpiegel »

_bfhp wrote: post #34
olefoo wrote: post #3

There is nothing about programming computers that is gender specific; in fact it seems kind of weird and awkward that we have to discuss this at all. Given that so many of the foundational figures of the field ( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. ) were female, the fact that programming and IT became an almost entirely male-dominated profession is suspicious, and should make us question the attitudes and social constru…

What's weird is that people assume that this has to do with programming specifically, instead of the larger workings of gender as a social construction and hierarchy (laid upon the material reality of sex dimorphism). Discussing gender isn't weird, men (and many women) just aren't very literate about the thing.

Sure, with a title "I'm a Female who codes" people have certain expectations. What's so strange about a female who codes?

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#160

Post by _bfhp »

nthrow wrote: post #157
_bfhp wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Disturbed individuals"? Did you read the articles? The people being describes are the leaders of the "movement", like Elam. The "movement" obviously encourages the behavior being described -- meanwhile, groups like CAIR work hard to address the popular image of the terrorist Muslim. Where is the CAIR of "men's rights" I wonder

There are some Muslim leaders that express disturbing things as well. Once again, this does not make them the voice of mainstream Islam. If you actually visit a large men's rights community, like http://reddit.com/r/mensrights , you'll find that some women participate in discussion as well and the men are not the rape-happy bugaboos that many paint MRAs in general to be.

Oh hey look the top story is someone "cherry-picking" a paragraph from an article one person wrote, about rape. Glad I took the time to visit
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