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Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

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Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#151

Post by pbhjpbhj »

rgj wrote: post #131
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe we have database rights (see eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Directive ) that can be used to prevent others from using your data - under quite narrowly defined conditions AFAIR. Copyright doesn't protect from reuse of data, it's there to protect a particular artistic expression, a particular form if you like. I don't think the USA have anything akin to the European database rights?

the EU database directive only protects databases that are the result of a "substantial investment". That means that in practice only databases that are not a side effect of the core activities of the creator are protected. A course database would not qualify for protection under the database directive since the core activity is teaching, and not publishing courses online.

>in practice only databases that are not a side effect of the core activities of the creator are protected //

Presumably that assertion is based on caselaw as I see nothing in the Directive itself that says that. A substantial investment - but note that can be qualitative and/or quantative - is in Art7(1)¹ however.

If your assertion is true then databases could be simply compiled by an offshoot company in order to meet the requirements.

¹ -- http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...

    ---
Edit: http://www.out-law.com/page-5698 gives a run-down including some caselaw (as does http://www.out-law.com/page-392 with more caselaw detail). It doesn't tally with what you're saying exactly but suggests that the investment needs to be in the compilation of the data, not the production. It might well be argued that this [theoretical] case would be akin to the "Judgments on the Fixtures Marketing lawsuits" and so like the football league match listings not warrant protection. However it seems it's rather difficult to be generic in judgement. Any part of law that says "substantial" appears to be well-placed to let lawyers earn their keep.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#152

Post by eropple »

jcc80 wrote: post #88
Gracana wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just standard being-an-American stuff. [...] it's really cool that it's a regular, run of the mill occurrence for people to push back against norms and restrictions in American society without any fear of long-term repercussions. It's standard privileged American stuff. It's great that this guy can push back, but try being a Spanish-speaking factory temp trying to push back and get proper training and safety e…

Please don't pollute this thread with the social justice warrior stuff. The student could be punished and people that don't speak English or want a different waitressing job aren't helpless.

An understanding that social position gives you power and options that others without your advantages of birth may lack is not "social justice warrior" stuff, it's basic sense.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#153

Post by jcc80 »

eropple wrote: post #152
jcc80 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't pollute this thread with the social justice warrior stuff. The student could be punished and people that don't speak English or want a different waitressing job aren't helpless.

An understanding that social position gives you power and options that others without your advantages of birth may lack is not "social justice warrior" stuff, it's basic sense.

I'm not familiar with Sean Haufler's "advantages of birth". If you are familiar with him and his family, and feel it would be appropriate to this discussion, then have at it I guess.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#154

Post by the_af »

superpatosainz wrote: post #76
the_af wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without diminishing what you say, it happens in other democratic countries as well. In many Latin American universities (and even lower education) the students are a force to be reckoned with. For example, in recent years a student coalition demonstrated against the education policies of former president of Chile, Sebastián Piñera, and it was a major crisis. Similar demonstrations can happen against, for example, the…

Not to be pedantic, but Piñera at this very moment is still governing and Michelle Bachelet has not taken his post yet.

True! I forgot he wasn't out yet (I'm not from Chile).

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#156

Post by rosser »

ggchappell wrote: post #13

An interesting and apparently well executed effort. But, to be honest, your arguments reek of ignorance. > This is an unfortunate outcome, since Yale’s copyright assertion muddles the argument that Yale’s actions violate Peter and Harry’s freedom of speech. No it doesn't. Whatever Yale's responsibilities in the freedom-of-speech realm may be, they are entirely ethical in nature, as freedom of speech in the legal sens…

I tend to agree with the argument that "freedom of speech", as generally construed, is a thing that binds governments, and not private parties.

Sometimes, however, that's a spurious distinction. This is one of those times.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#157

Post by judk »

Morphling wrote: post #116
babs474 wrote: post #19

Very cool, I love this approach as it is very similar to how my (now defunct) unedditreddit app worked and how a clever app called socialfixer for facebook works. Two thoughts. 1. You are not unblockable. My app was removed from the chrome app store after reddit complained, no review process, no appeals, good luck even communicating with google. Installing an app not from the appstore is almost impossible for a non-s…

Just because the Extension is removed from the "play store" doesn't mean it's unattainable. You can still distribute Chrome Extensions from a third party site, of course they can take steps to get your take it off of your site, but one would assume that college students who want to use this could simply share it via email or simply on a USB stick.

Nope.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/07/chrome-on-windows-to-start-...

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#158

Post by eropple »

jcc80 wrote: post #153
eropple wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An understanding that social position gives you power and options that others without your advantages of birth may lack is not "social justice warrior" stuff, it's basic sense.

I'm not familiar with Sean Haufler's "advantages of birth". If you are familiar with him and his family, and feel it would be appropriate to this discussion, then have at it I guess.

He got into Yale and you're wondering what advantages he has?

Let's set aside for a second the high-end schools' tendency towards legacy admissions, which clearly isn't going to be biased towards the children of the upper class who are certainly not predominantly white and loaded (that smell is not the dog, folks, it's sarcasm). Have you seen the demographics of Yale[1]? Even just racial demographics put WTFs to this[2]. 7% of Yale students are black--16% of Americans born between 1992 and 1996 are black (and overwhelmingly poor). 9% of Yale students are Hispanic. 14% of Americans born between 1992 and 1996 are Hispanic (and are comparatively only often poor). Does that seem like it makes sense to you if certain populations weren't getting advantages based on external factors?

"They pick the best" often comes up as a possibility to answer that. Because they sort of do, social signaling aside (and Haufler is white and male so he's a few rungs up that ladder too). But isn't it funny how "the best" generally also correlates to "white or Asian and rich"? SAT scores against income[3] are pretty indicative; SAT against racial demographics[also 3] likewise. This is not hard: non-Asian minorities are overwhelmingly more likely to be really-goddam-poor than whites and Asians and are much more likely to score like shit on the signaling tests that are your ticket to the upper-crust-signaling environment of a Yale. (And, as mentioned, even poor whites are more likely to have the social signals that are attractive to groups that select for "their type of people"--like, you know, most societal gatekeepers.) The conflation of economic and social advantages what makes these people privileged.

Crack babies don't get into Yale[4]. Children of illegal immigrants don't get into Yale. People who grow up in extreme poverty don't get into Yale. That doesn't make people who get into Yale bad but it does mean that they have advantages that need to be recognized over the girl who didn't get the opportunity to learn English or the guy who didn't get the opportunity to grow up in a safe environment where school was valued. Or, y'know, their kids when it's their turn to not be even remotely close to the "right stuff" for Yale.

And this is what the guy you dismissively shat on for no good reason understands: that it's important for us, as people with incredible luck and massive advantages, aware that no, not everyone has these advantages, and so it behooves us to do right by them, too. What Haufler did is cool and it sucks that his amazingly selective private school got frowny at a student for a similar project, but as injustices go, this shit's pretty small--if he's of a mind to, he's gonna walk out of college into a job making no less than the eighty-eighth percentile of individual income in this country[5]. Having your kids be nearly guaranteed to do no better, and probably worse, than you did, in a system designed to keep you where you are? That's pretty big. That's what he's saying. That's what's actually important.

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[1] http://oir.yale.edu/yale-factsheet

[2] http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop3.asp

[3] http://domesatreview.com/content/sat-test-demographics-incom...

[4] Oh please please please be the person who thinks two counterexamples invalidate statistics please please please it's been too long. Please and thank you.

[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_S...

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#159

Post by jgoodwin »

I would play up the extension as an accessibility enhancement, and cite the ADA and accessibility guidelines. This makes the point about the users' 'right to transform data' more clearly -- access and transformation is about usability, and usability is a legal right.

The administration will greatly fear an ADA action, or arguments that come even close to them, while drawing parallels. Students crying 'Freedom!' is old hat, and will get a less effective response.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#160

Post by ggchappell »

ganeumann wrote: post #107
ggchappell wrote: post #13

An interesting and apparently well executed effort. But, to be honest, your arguments reek of ignorance. > This is an unfortunate outcome, since Yale’s copyright assertion muddles the argument that Yale’s actions violate Peter and Harry’s freedom of speech. No it doesn't. Whatever Yale's responsibilities in the freedom-of-speech realm may be, they are entirely ethical in nature, as freedom of speech in the legal sens…

Freedom of Speech is not a legal right, it is an ethical right. It predates its US First Amendment codification by several hundred years and is also legally expressed in many other countries. To use your words, may I suggest you do not couch your arguments in terms of fallacious claims about freedom of speech? I don't think commentators who decried Yale's hypocrisy were claiming that Yale violated the first amendment…

Do we disagree about something? If so, honestly I don't know what it is.
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