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Fired? Speak No Evil

nytimes.com

151–160 of 378 posts

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#151

> I think I get to keep last year’s Christmas gift of an iPad, and the previous year’s bottle of wine has long been drunk A way to reduce burn rate could have included slightly less lavish gifts.

The wine was probably like $20, and the iPad (what, $400?) may easily have paid for itself in giving employees first-hand experience with a very popular/hot tech & ecosystem.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#152
What about when the forever-non-disparaging clause is in the employment contract itself?

And what value does it have that the contract has a stamp "Confidential" on all pages? Would talking about it here be forbidden?

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#153
post #134

> Though such clauses don’t technically violate the First Amendment Not technically, not in spirit, not in any way related to the 1st amendment. Have so few people actually bothered to learn even a little about the 1st amendment? You can read the entire first amendment several times and then ponder it a little in just a few minutes, because it's very short. In fact, I'll paste the entire text: Congress shall make no…

If this were 100 years ago, you could make the argument that by enforcing this contract, Congress made a law abridging the freedom of the press. I think that ship has sailed and failed, however, so it's too late now.

But it is interesting to think of how the Constitution can become meaningless if the government is willing to create laws to allow others to take away your Constitutional rights.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#154
post #93
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between "not trashing people" and not saying anything under threat of lawsuit. Pretty well anything can be interpreted as disparaging. You could say something as simple as "they fired me, I don't think it was fair." and find yourself liable.

The reality is that bringing a lawsuit against a former employee is a huge expense and as others have mentioned - unlikely to even get anywhere. So unless you want to cherry pick extremely unlikely situations, this separation agreement clause is a no-op and probably worth signing.

Dying startups tend to do a lot of stupid things. Why risk it?

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#156
Here's a simple thing to say to an employer that offers such a clause:

Define "disparagement".

If anything ever goes to court, from case law it seems to be all based on whether or not an action is "disparaging". So, define what constitutes disparagement in advance, and if that is acceptable to you, go ahead and sign.

Personally, I'd sign nothing for 2 weeks pay, and then make sure everyone knows that was the offered severance. Seems disparaging enough to me. ;)

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#157
post #119
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will wasn't writing about "agreements", he was explicitly making the point that for him it is indeed not worth $3k to agree to lower his ethical standards. He was writing about the non-disparagement clause, not the contract. Maybe you didnt't read it carefully, like you didnt read your PS3 EULA, because most software EULAs, including the ones from Sony, do not have non-disparagement clauses. Employment contracts have…

Maybe you didnt't read it carefully You're accusing me of not reading something carefully when you're not considering the context of the quote to which I was responding -- which was specifically talking about the previous poster's advice to PROGRAMMERS? and are widely considered unenforcable Unless I was planning to really go after my ex-employer as some kind of vendetta, I wouldn't worry about a Non-disparagement ag…

Non-compete agreements may not be the best example for you. They can have large impacts on employees (http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/non-compete-agreements-10...) and far-reaching effects on entire regions (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20071204/005038.shtml).

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#158
post #134

> Though such clauses don’t technically violate the First Amendment Not technically, not in spirit, not in any way related to the 1st amendment. Have so few people actually bothered to learn even a little about the 1st amendment? You can read the entire first amendment several times and then ponder it a little in just a few minutes, because it's very short. In fact, I'll paste the entire text: Congress shall make no…

Learning "a little about the 1st amendment" and pondering it "a little in a few minutes" is a dangerous thing. From just looking at this text, for example, you would think that it only applied to Congress, when actually it also applies to the executive branch, the judicial branch, and states and local government (since the Fourteenth Amendment and the incorporation cases).

I also think this narrow view has made you jump to a much stronger conclusion than is warranted. At least one scholar has considered whether the First Amendment could be interpreted to require that contracts of silence be unenforceable. http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/research/cornell-law-review...

In this case you happen to be mostly right, but don't assume you can understand the contours of First Amendment law just by looking at the text. There is a vast apparatus that has been built around the First Amendment, little of which is deducible from the constitutional text alone.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#159
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the whole EA Spouse thing happened quite a while ago.

And I haven't purchased an EA product since.

And that's fine and dandy, but chances are that the company composition is largely different today than it was when EA Spouse occurred. I understand that there is more to a company than a collective of individuals, but it might be a little misleading to still make EA-related decisions today based on the EA Spouse incident.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#160
As a programmer, the clause that always bothers me is the one about how they own everything that I do that's vaguely related to their business, even on my own time. I go ahead and sign it because I hear that the state of California protects me on that one. But I still make sure to hide my side projects from my employers and coworkers.
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