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CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

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Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#151

Post by sandGorgon »

enraged_camel wrote: post #48
fingerprinter wrote: post #40

To be honest, Crossfit has quite a few dark secrets. This one, though, can kill you. What are crossfit's dark secrets? First and foremost, well, it's terrible. The programming coming from HQ is just plain awful. There are many programs out there now (Outlaw, Competitors WOD, CF Football etc) that fill the gap and actually give decent programming, but the programming from crossfit.com is really, really bad. Did you kn…

Whoever came up with the idea of high-rep olympic lifts needs to be shot. Seriously, it's incredibly dangerous. Olympic lifts are very complex mechanical movements and it takes real Olympic athletes months if not years to master the form. There's a reason for that: if the form is not correct, you open yourself to significant risk of potentially-permanent injury. The problem with doing them with high repetition (and u…

Rippetoe wrote a fairly scathing article about the inappropriate use of high rep Olympic lifts in T-Mag recently.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/fall...

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#152

Post by wdewind »

pbreit wrote: post #136
wdewind wrote: post #135

Ignoring the fact that there is no true definition of what crossfit is (which is a problem in and of itself), this isn't even the biggest issue with crossfit. The biggest issue is that the training philosophy is not ground in any kind of science whatsoever (ie: that mixing conditioning and strength training in one workout somehow combines for an increased effect on both). CrossfitHQ also promotes a concept of "all ar…

I don't see that as a big problem. Just getting folks to actually workout is 99% of the battle. CrossFit seems very good at that.

You're getting downvoted but I think that's a fair point. I think I addressed it though: that fits into the fun aspect.

Unfortunately if you get folks to workout and then they injure themselves, as frequently happens in crossfit, you have other problems too.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#153

Post by enraged_camel »

smsm42 wrote: post #105
graeme wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that it matters at the margins. You'll stop. And some people will foolishly keep going without the coach. But are you seriously arguing that the screaming coach has no marginal impact?

There are people that would encourage others to do street racing, take dangerous drugs and light their farts for youtube video. And there always will be idiots who do it. That can happen in a gym setting too. So what? There are dumb people. Try not to be one of them. I think this message is universal and doesn't have anything to do with CF. What is the message that has something to do with it?

>>There are dumb people. Try not to be one of them.

Peer pressure can make smart people do dumb things. And since Crossfit has peer pressure and competition built into its very core, the rates of injuries and potentially-fatal medical conditions like rhabdo are a lot higher.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#154

Post by dkarl »

jacques_chester wrote: post #122
dkarl wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because a journal had an article about it with a cartoon attached doesn't mean they've adopted as a "mascot" or make light of the condition. Unfortunately, that part is real. There were two unofficial mascots, Pukey the Clown and Rhabdo the Clown. If you puked during class, you "met one of the clowns." The clowns were celebrated on t-shirts, murals, etc. That was dumb, but it was eventually recognized as dumb, a…

> Like other types of training, Crossfit has its share of smart and critical people as well, and they do their best to improve the practice of Crossfit and identify and fix problems. The problem is that none of these people work at Crossfit HQ and CFHQ goes out its way to excommunicate them.

That's one reason it's actually a good thing that the affiliates are so loosely regulated. Everyone respects Mark Rippetoe, no matter if they entirely agree with his assessment of Crossfit or not, and everyone knows that Greg Glassman is a second-rate jackass (even if they give him credit for popularizing the idea of Crossfit in the first place.)

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#155

Post by enraged_camel »

dkarl wrote: post #59
enraged_camel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>That's a good reason to shun a particular location or instructor, but I and a lot of other people have had completely opposite experiences. Before I posted that, I knew that a Crossfitter would respond and defend Crossfit. That is the level of cult-like irrationality I am talking about: looking at statistics (such as the ones about much higher incidence of Rhambo in Crossfitters) and responding with anecdotal evide…

After you went out of your way to thank someone for an anecdote that confirmed your bias, you'll have to forgive me for believing that you're reacting to my point of view, not the nature of my evidence. All I said is that you should see for yourself and trust your own judgment. To quote myself, "they don't do much to actively ensure the quality of local affiliates.... I wouldn't encourage anyone to blindly trust what…

>>After you went out of your way to thank someone for an anecdote that confirmed your bias...

You sound hopelessly confused. We are not discussing anecdotes. We are discussing actual statistics provided in the original article that clearly showed Crossfit to have much higher rates of injuries and potentially-fatal medical conditions.

When you put the burden on new people to figure out whether their affiliates are high quality, you are blaming the victim. Most beginners are not capable of accurately assessing whether the types of workouts done in Crossfit and the manner in which they are done are healthy or not. What they do is read reviews of the gym on the Internet and see all the five-star raves, then visit the gym and see everyone cheering each other on and having a good time, and think, "hey this is cool, I want to be a part of it too!" Are they supposed to know about normally ultra-rare conditions like rhabdo? Or should Crossfit do its fucking job and keep its affiliates in check?

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#156

Post by scott_s »

mason55 wrote: post #115
scott_s wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't do Crossfit, but I think it's a good system in general. I do powerlifting style strength training and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. The attitude you're talking about - patch me up so I can get back to training, until my next injury - is common to all sports and physical activities. Now, it's possible injuries are more common in Crossfit than in other sports, but that's a question for the data.

Wanting to be fixed correctly so you can be healthy and return to your activity is just a sign that you love what you're doing and have goals. Being proud of being hurt is totally unhealthy.

Ever seen Jaws? This is a famous scene: http://youtu.be/dLjNzwEULG8 Every sport culture I've been exposed to has an element of this.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#157

Post by moocowduckquack »

I wonder if I could get office workers to shift rubble for me in the evenings and get them to pay for the privilege as a fitness craze. I have never really understood paying to lift things, you might as well do an evening shift doing order picking at a warehouse.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#158

Post by enraged_camel »

mchughj wrote: post #91
enraged_camel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>That's a good reason to shun a particular location or instructor, but I and a lot of other people have had completely opposite experiences. Before I posted that, I knew that a Crossfitter would respond and defend Crossfit. That is the level of cult-like irrationality I am talking about: looking at statistics (such as the ones about much higher incidence of Rhambo in Crossfitters) and responding with anecdotal evide…

I think that you should go back and read the prior response and then think a little bit about whether or not it represents a "cult-like irrationality".

If you showed someone how fucked up Scientology is, and they came back with, "well, my experiences with it have been totally different - your local church must be bad. You should have done better research before joining it!" then yeah, that would be complete cult-like mentality.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#159

Post by enraged_camel »

mightybyte wrote: post #60
enraged_camel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever came up with the idea of high-rep olympic lifts needs to be shot. Seriously, it's incredibly dangerous. Olympic lifts are very complex mechanical movements and it takes real Olympic athletes months if not years to master the form. There's a reason for that: if the form is not correct, you open yourself to significant risk of potentially-permanent injury. The problem with doing them with high repetition (and u…

I don't think there's much evidence to demonstrate that high-rep olympic lifts done by a trained person are any more dangerous then low-rep lifts at high weight. Yes, if you don't have good technique you're asking for trouble, but that's not what we're talking about here. I don't think form breaks down after a few reps nearly as much as you say. There's probably a point at which it will, but there's a lot of room for…

>>Hogwash. Each person is responsible for their own actions. Yes, competition might help people push themselves, but that shouldn't turn you into a mindless machine that will self destruct just to get the win. If it does, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Bullshit. A Crossfit trainer telling you to do high-rep barbell deadlifts is the equivalent of a doctor prescribing you ten times the dose of a drug you need. What happens when you are hospitalized? Is it your fault because "each person is responsible for their actions"?

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#160

Post by nivals »

Veterans to CrossFit are not immune, nor are good movers/fit athletes in general.

I've been doing CrossFit for six years, this past December during a 'holiday' WOD I got nailed by acute rhabdo in my right arm.

It took many months of rehab and different body work techniques to get things back to normal. Very, very, painful process.

Honestly, the workout wasn't out of whack with a tougher than normal day. It was for me, however something that put me out of commission for five months.

Lesson learned.

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