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English has been my pain for 15 years

antirez.com

151–160 of 308 posts

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#151
Why would anyone even think about learning 'British' English instead of 'US' English? We Brits do talk a tad funny at times.

Indeed, the OP mentions that US English is somewhat easier to follow and that's what we should be listening to, the Brits are just a distraction.

The key is that I think it's important to know the language in which most publication is done. Which for IT issues is currently US English. So more ABC and less BBC is my advice.

This book by John Honey from 1997 is an interesting read on the subject but it's a long time since I read it so might be a little dated now: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Language-Power-Professor-John-Honey/...

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#152
post #75
post #36

English isn't just the language of IT, it's become the lingua franca of science and commerce. Very little research worth reading is published in a language other than English these days. I wouldn't be surprised if there are obscure, third-rate English-language scientific journals in China that have never been seen, let alone had articles submitted to by native English speakers! Over the years, I've worked with a lot…

Cockney is relatively easy compared to some other local UK dialects/accents. My wife's family is from Stirlingshire in Scotland and they say stuff like: 'yer wain's greetin' -> 'the baby's crying'. 'I'm away tae get woor messages' -> 'I'm going to the shops for food' It took my a while before I could understand them :-)

It's never quite that simple: as a genuine cockney (born at Barts), I have a bastardised Northern and German accent.

Innit.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#153
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antithesis sounds close to Anti thesis in English (As opposed to American English)

In Australian English, it's "ann-tith-iss-iss" versus "ann-tee thee-sis"; I imagined British English would have been the same. Interesting to learn.

I'm British and I pronounce it "ann-tith-iss-iss"

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#154
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the interesting links, it is interesting that there is a debate about it. About software documentation translation, maybe I'm biased since the Italian speaking population is so small that it's much simpler for italians to learn basic English skills, but actually Spanish or Chinese have so many speakers that the efforts could pay back a lot more. As for the "World Service", I would already be happy enough w…

as a fellow broken english speaker I have to note: _which_ pronounce? And does it even matter? Should "can't" be kaːnt, kʰeɪnt or kænt ? Pederasts are pɛ.dəˌfaɪl or ˈpiː.dəˌfaɪl? Do we like to dɑːns or dæns ? (examples taken from the last two TV shows I've seen _yesterday_) Surely there are improvements we can all have to the way we misspeak (heck, I just learned "honorable" doesn't have a "h"!) but I have given up o…

/dɑːns/ and /kɑːnt/ in the UK, /dæns/ and /kænt/ in most of the US.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dance#Pronunciation

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/can%27t#Pronunciation

Which way you should pronounce them depends, I suppose, on whether you speak to more British people or Americans.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#156

The recent frenzy of accent related Hacker News posts seems to reinforce the opinion I saw in a thread discussing the pg controversy: "Dear Paul, It's not what you are, it's what you did. At least, I hope. I suspect this is all coming out of a desire to emphasize that communication is important when you're starting a company. It's never just about solving technical problems. Well, sure, that's true. But as Nitasha ha…

"Dear Paul,

The warm and fuzzy thought police department (WTFPD) would like to have a little chat with you. You see, we have taken down bigger game than you, and we could easily have you stuffed and mounted on our mantle.

Instead of saying what you believe to be true, the WTFPD recommends that you say what we wish were true. Here at the WTFPD, our belief is that wishing hard enough for something will make it true.

Sure, some founders might be hurt along the way while your advice is temporarily false during the small period when we are waiting for our wishes to have effect. But it is far better for a foreign founder's company to die than suffer the chance that he might be made uncomfortable by the suggestion that adapting his accent to the norms of the local market might help his startup.

You see, the worst crime in the world according to the WTFPD is making people feel uncomfortable. That's why we're warm and fuzzy ;)

Do I need to spell this out to you? Shape up Paul. Our sanctimony is powerful enough to destroy any reputation. Struggle too hard and we can make you a "racist". News reports about you will forever read "Paul Graham, the investor who stirred controversy by saying that foreign accents are bad for startups, ate breakfast today". Don't make us do it Paul.

The next time you are tempted to open your mouth to speak your mind based on your experience investing in over 500 startups, stop and consider that maybe we know better. You may have built a firm that revolutionized how investing is done, but we feel deeply. So who is really the expert here?

The world needs more sensitivity Paul, not the cancer of your nasty hatey hate speech. But we will give you a chance to redeem yourself. Beg for our forgiveness, say what you're supposed to say from now on, and join us in making the world a warmer, fuzzier place.

giggle and hugs

-The Warm and Fuzzy Thought Police Department

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#157

Last time I expressed my thoughts[1] here about the same thing I was brutally word-raped by the angriest people on earth, now everyone is saying what I was saying all along and it's all well and good. You need to know English: put in the effort, watch a shitload of movies and read even more books. That's it, you can't just ignore it. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6239371

You belittled those who don't speak English as lazy schmucks. This is an offensive, narrow minded viewpoint. Not surprisingly, others reacted strongly.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not really. I have the same opinion and I'm not a native English speaker. English has some good properties for a common language: - It has a simple grammar - It is spoken by the entertaining media - It already has a head start Now, if they could actually fix the major flaws: - Spelling is absurd. It's not just bad, it is absurd. - For foreigners, the UK accents are terrible. It took me a couple of days in London…

Likewise, five different words all pronounced the same: or, oar, ore, awe, aww.

Where do you live that or and awe sound the same? I get or, oar and ore, but awe (such as awe shucks, or awesome) and aww sound nothing like or in the midwest.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#159
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a 12 year old in Brazil not only has to learn how to install an OS, and then how to install Python, and then how to program with Python, but also has to do all of that in a different language? Pretty easy to call it an essential skill when English is your first language. How about you try to pick up some new programming language using only Japanese documentation?

If I had to I would. In fact, just like the author, I was born and raised in Italy. I'm not a native English speaker but since the circumstances required it I learned the English language, simple as that. Now I get to read college textbooks in English instead of relying on the botched translations, I watch movies in their original language instead of watching the translated version and missing half the jokes.

I think we're talking at cross purposes.

I think it would be really useful for some core information[1] to be made available in best quality form, and in many different languages. This would be things like "How does science work?" and other simple introductory science texts. This would be things like man pages.

This would help people learn the basic concepts while they're also learning other languages. Having short form, excellent quality, science and math educational material available in many languages could do a lot to make the world a better place.

Having read some of your other comments I see that you're aiming the "learn English, it's really useful" to people working at a much higher level than that. I gently agree with most of that - there are many areas where learning English is very useful.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#160

The recent frenzy of accent related Hacker News posts seems to reinforce the opinion I saw in a thread discussing the pg controversy: "Dear Paul, It's not what you are, it's what you did. At least, I hope. I suspect this is all coming out of a desire to emphasize that communication is important when you're starting a company. It's never just about solving technical problems. Well, sure, that's true. But as Nitasha ha…

"Dear Paul, The warm and fuzzy thought police department (WTFPD) would like to have a little chat with you. You see, we have taken down bigger game than you, and we could easily have you stuffed and mounted on our mantle. Instead of saying what you believe to be true, the WTFPD recommends that you say what we wish were true. Here at the WTFPD, our belief is that wishing hard enough for something will make it true. Su…

WFTPD
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