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Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

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Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#151

Post by adventured »

jacalata wrote: post #140
digitalengineer wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Imagine voting for you own major, sheriff, congressman and president! (This is no joke people, we can't. They're appointed from within their own ranks. We can vote for a specific party-leader and hope they win. But the always end up creating a coalition with 2 or 33 other party's and needing to compromise).

I don't actually think voting for judges and sheriffs is a good idea at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

One example doesn't make a case. I'd argue that the system of electing sheriffs has overall worked tremendously well in the US. The alternative is appointment by insiders or a board, both of which are easily susceptible to corruption, and that can make it difficult to impossible to correct said corruption when it happens.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#152

Post by adventured »

digitalengineer wrote: post #143
jacalata wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't actually think voting for judges and sheriffs is a good idea at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

Oh, that guy. He's even know over here. (Journalists like to pick out the most 'interesting' persons). That guy scares me. You also vote for judges? Would it help if there was a maximum someone could get voted for? Like with your president?

It's ideal for most judges to be elected to life terms. That limits concerns about them needing to serve the politics of the minute to get re-elected. They can take principled stands without worrying about being thrown out. The Supreme Court has routine stood up to both Congress and the President, and they can only do that because they can't be removed (except under extraordinary circumstances of corruption).

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#153

Post by digitalengineer »

killerpopiller wrote: post #147
dirktheman wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow Dutchman here, and I couldn't agree more. I actually helped building the electronic patient file in two major hospitals, and I can't tell you enough about the massive clusterfuck that is. The government requires you to finish it before a certain date, only they provide you with the exact requirements after that date. Basic security measures like encrypting data? No way! To me, America is still the land of the…

no, it is, fanfare.., Germany. I read this above report and can't believe it. When that this happen? Our data privacy laws are thorough and sometimes an obstacle, but many projects got stopped because of privacy issues: e.g. the digital stored medical records on ones health insurance card The stop of the data retention directive by our beloved Bundesverfassungsgericht (they are awesome) is another milestone. Core of…

Thank you for the reply. can't believe I forgot all about Germany! I sometimes joke we would have been better off (privacy-wise and financially) if we would have become a federal state of Germany in the '50s. Our Gilder was already linked to the German Mark and you are our largest trade partner. We seem to have the same financial 'hard money' line as well. I visit Germany a lot and am always amazed by the hospitality.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#154

Post by venomsnake »

mtgx wrote: post #11

I give this maybe 2-3 months before the whistleblower behind this is being prosecuted by the Obama administration for "harming national security and putting people's lives in danger, and/or espionage".

And killing puppies with chainsaw. Think of the puppies.

The US is behaving more and more like authoritarian regime - see no evil, hear no evil - no evil exists. And if someone sheds light on our misdealing - it is their fault and must be punished.

Nixon was born in the wrong time. Poor guy.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#156

Post by nkurz »

alan_cx wrote: post #141

As a Brit, can I ask: Why don't I see Fox "News" presenters, and the like, crying daily on screen about the death of the USA over things like this? Unlike the birth certificate of Obama or attempts to being free health care to people, this really is destroying US citizen's basic rights. But no Fox tears and hysterics. Why is that? I mean, surely this is a fantastic way to attack the "hated" Obama, surely. Aren't they…

I'm American, and don't know if I have any more insight than you do. I think the issue is that both major parties in the US (at least publicly) prioritize security over privacy. Fox doesn't cry out about this because Fox viewers are rarely in uproar about such trade offs. If anything, I'd guess this policy has greater support among mainstream Republicans than Democrats.

Privacy issues are viewed in an entirely different light than gun control, and are frequently a darling of the left. For example, the EFF (source of this article) is considered as an extremely liberal left organization, and hated by many conservatives. Perhaps the feeling is that as long as you can maintain control of the government you and your side have nothing to worry about, and the guns are there in case you somehow lose control of that government.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#157

Post by adventured »

alan_cx wrote: post #141

As a Brit, can I ask: Why don't I see Fox "News" presenters, and the like, crying daily on screen about the death of the USA over things like this? Unlike the birth certificate of Obama or attempts to being free health care to people, this really is destroying US citizen's basic rights. But no Fox tears and hysterics. Why is that? I mean, surely this is a fantastic way to attack the "hated" Obama, surely. Aren't they…

Well you're slightly wrong.

See: Judge Andrew Napolitano (former New Jersey Superior Court Judge). He's a host on Fox News and does in fact regularly make an issue of these types of abuses. Take a look at his books:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Napolitano#Writing_caree...

Fox News is a 2/3 conservative bastion (and they're for big government, big spending, big military, big debt), but it also has a small mixture of libertarian "extreme right wing" Republican views as well (and those people are against the police state, against big government, pro civil liberties, etc).

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#158

Post by jl6 »

adventured wrote: post #99
coenhyde wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Nothing is going to change until there is a collapse. Even then I fear what fills the power void will be worse than what you have now. The reason no one cares is because most Americans are in a comatose state. I've traveled to most US cities and some places in between and it continues to shock me just how stupid the average american is. They're drugged out on corn syrup, anti-depressants, street drugs and see…

Comatose is a good description. It's worth noting that those things you list are masks. Americans over-eat, abuse prescription drugs, etc. to hide from, effectively, the last 40 years (and what it has led to). The US standard of living has fallen massively since 1970. In the late 1960s our minimum wage was the equivalent of nearly $50,000 in today's dollars. But you're wrong, the average American isn't stupid. You cl…

Do you have a citation showing a fall in standard of living since 1970?

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#159

Post by Create »

lispm wrote: post #46

Also confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Hundreds of Millions of Non-Americans

Directive 2006/24/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 15 March 2006 on the retention of data generated or processed in connection with the provision of publicly available electronic communications services or of public communications networks and amending Directive 2002/58/EC

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...

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