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GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

adainitiative.org

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Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#151

Post by selenamarie »

marquis wrote: post #119
sneak wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't conflate people being ignorant of their privilege with legitimate criticism of The Ada Initiative. The Ada Initiative is a destructive and notorious concern-troll organization that is reviled by many feminists of both genders. They hurt all real initiatives for resolving inequality and bias in technology. Supporting them is destructive.

Can you back this statement up please? I'm interested to hear where these comments originate.

If you're interested in TAI's position on discussing sex in technical conferences and how that (in general) impacts women's participation:

http://adainitiative.org/2012/09/when-sex-and-porn-are-on-to... (This post predates the BSides incident by 5 months.)

And, about BSides:

http://adainitiative.org/2013/02/keeping-it-on-topic-the-pro...

http://adainitiative.org/2013/03/clarification-on-the-ada-in...

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#152

Post by pifflesnort »

jmj42 wrote: post #149
pifflesnort wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, let's clear it up then: "Male privilege refers to the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women." The useful part is "... which are usually denied to women". The rest is just divisive stereotyping. > It's actually a fairly useful generalization, and most understand w…

>Useful how, exactly? As a two word phrase which everyone understands to mean the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women. > As far as I can tell, you're getting angry at the wrong people, for the wrong reasons. >You really think the tech industry is responsible for cluele…

> As a two word phrase which everyone understands to mean the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women.

How do you think people react to hearing that what they perceive (often rightfully) as hard-earned success was, in your eyes, unearned?

It's not a productive line of discussion.

> So, yeah, _my_ job is to educate and crusade.

Using divisive and emotional rhetoric just makes people stop listening.

I'd be interested in sponsoring, hosting, or otherwise contributing to non-gendered youth programs that were welcoming to girls and boys.

I don't even know where to start, but I do know that the Ada Initiative's divisive identity politics and concern-trolling aren't something I agree with, and disagreement with their organization doesn't make me a "male privileged" moral bankrupt individual.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#153

Post by jmj42 »

pifflesnort wrote: post #152
jmj42 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Useful how, exactly? As a two word phrase which everyone understands to mean the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women. > As far as I can tell, you're getting angry at the wrong people, for the wrong reasons. >You really think the tech industry is responsible for cluele…

> As a two word phrase which everyone understands to mean the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women. How do you think people react to hearing that what they perceive (often rightfully) as hard-earned success was, in your eyes, unearned? It's not a productive line of disc…

> How do you think people react to hearing that what they perceive (often rightfully) as hard-earned success was, in your eyes, unearned?

Ahh, but that's the guts of male privilege isn't it. Their hard-earned success was much easier to come by than a women whose achieved the same level of success. That's what privilege means. It was easier for man to gain that success than their women counterpart. Perhaps not so rhetorical after all. It just stings. Sometimes the truth does that. And sometimes, the only way to break through the denial of an issue is to take a hard stance.

This _is_ an emotional issue. It's people's lives we're talking about. As young women, it's emotional for my daughters. As a father, it's emotional for me. As developers who want to "expand the talent pool", it's emotional for the industry. As people who wish to be blind to gender, it's emotional for society.

> I'd be interested in sponsoring, hosting, or otherwise contributing to non-gendered youth programs

That's great. I'm involved in several myself, including the STEM outreach program at our schools. That doesn't mean that programs targeted at young girls aren't necessary. These "gendered" programs are as much about counter-acting the social pressure the keeps them out of STEM as they are about introducing and developing interest in STEM generally.

Now, I don't know anything about the Ada Initiative, so I'll leave that alone, but will say this, as I said before, ignoring the problem may not make you morally bankrupt, but it does make you complicit in others bankruptcy.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#154

Post by lizzard »

I've been answering emails along with other Ada Initiative folks all afternoon!! A lot of women all over the world are very happy and excited to get to try things out on github. The Systers list was so helpful in distributing the link to a diverse worldwide group of women in the field and students just starting out. I think this will have a very positive result and bring many more women into fully contributing to F/LOSS.

Since so many times, people in open source projects wonder what they can do to help, and given the incredibly positive response I've seen so far today from women who've read the blog post and who say it is going to help them, I'm feeling hopeful -- and proud to be part of TAI's efforts to contribute.

I love supporting anyone's learning, especially in free/open tech and culture, and spend a lot of my time trying to do exactly that. Some of that time, I make sure to focus on supporting other women. Taking the time to support other women is often something that has to be a deliberate act, because it is all too easy to just pay more attention to men, who expect and to some degree demand it, so, I have tried for many years to make that an essential part of my life.

Cheers, HN.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#155

Post by lizzard »

rguillebert wrote: post #94

Why not just create a github account under a nickname ?

We do, and I think the right & ability to work under pseudonymity is very important. But at some point having a career means that people want to hook their identities together. A bunch of the CS students coming into this only have an inkling of the crap they are about to face in the field. Hopefully more of us will stick around to find out all the awesome stuff and will believe in the philosophy and idealism of F/LOSS's potential to make the world better.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#156

Post by lizzard »

manacit wrote: post #11

I get five free private repos for being a university student (for as long as I'm a student) - I don't see why we can't just extend something like this to people who are learning how to program / use github, and not just women/students

That's great, and maybe you have student groups too that will be supportive and in which you will develop a useful network of peers and mentors!

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#157

Post by pifflesnort »

jmj42 wrote: post #153
pifflesnort wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a two word phrase which everyone understands to mean the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women. How do you think people react to hearing that what they perceive (often rightfully) as hard-earned success was, in your eyes, unearned? It's not a productive line of disc…

> How do you think people react to hearing that what they perceive (often rightfully) as hard-earned success was, in your eyes, unearned? Ahh, but that's the guts of male privilege isn't it. Their hard-earned success was much easier to come by than a women whose achieved the same level of success. That's what privilege means. It was easier for man to gain that success than their women counterpart. Perhaps not so rhet…

> Ahh, but that's the guts of male privilege isn't it. Their hard-earned success was much easier to come by than a women whose achieved the same level of success. That's what privilege means. It was easier for man to gain that success than their women counterpart. Perhaps not so rhetorical after all. It just stings. Sometimes the truth does that. And sometimes, the only way to break through the denial of an issue is to take a hard stance.

Do you want to be right, or do you want to be heard?

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#158

Post by prodigal_erik »

dsyph3r wrote: post #127
redidas wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think github's missing the point. To encourage a group to do open source we provide them with private repositories? I get how this group may feel hesitant to post something in the open source world, but so was I, and I'm a guy. Here's an analogy that maybe fits: Consider you meet someone that's afraid of flying. Do you say "come with me, I'll show you its safe" or do you say "here's a bunch of train and bus passes"

Writing code in an open source environment can be extremely intimidating. There is an unfortunate element of elitism around writing code and this can be very off putting for many people. Being able to code, learn, and get criticism in the privacy of a private repository is a big step toward open sourcing your code

I'm pro-elitism. It seems to me that only the most dedicated and obsessed have even a small chance of ever doing decent work, and I'm all for dissuading everyone else from adding to the mountain of poorly understood and unreliable garbage holding back our profession. I don't think anyone knows how to give (inflict?) that obsession to any child who didn't already have it, but luring the timid into a field at this stage so lacking in rigor is a waste of the useful talents they could offer to other fields.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#160

Post by marquis »

gamache wrote: post #142
marquis wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you back this statement up please? I'm interested to hear where these comments originate.

You can get a flavor for the Ada Initiative ahead. This happened at last year's Defcon. http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/did-feminists-cancel-violet...

Thanks for providing this information. I find censorship unethical and would have looked forward to Violet's talk. Also to assume that rape only happens to women is myopic.
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