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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#151

Post by yyqux »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #45
theorique wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some government programs have excellent customer service as compared to some corporate equivalents I am sure we could find counterexamples here.

Ever been to the DMV?

Yes, I went to the DMV in Illinois to get my license and managed to complete the eyesight, written and driving tests and walk out the door with my new license in maybe an hour and a half. I didn't even have an appointment.

I'm aware this isn't the case in all states, but that says more about the priorities and competence of the people running those governments than it does anything else. Unfortunately a lot of people seem resigned to the idea that things are going to be run poorly and don't even bother punishing the politicians who are shirking their responsibility of administration and blaming their own failures on some abstract idea that government is always inefficient.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#152

Post by jdminhbg »

ilaksh wrote: post #136

This seems an easy to grasp example of how the free market actually benefits the wealthy disproportionately. I think its an over-simplified concept. Yes, we definitely need to remain free and diverse, but we need to figure out how to factor more actual science, especially science related to human needs, into our decision-making systems. Right now its just whoever manages to collect the most money buys the policies. I…

> This seems an easy to grasp example of how the free market...

I can't even begin to grasp what part of lobbying the government to prop up your business via threats of penalties and imprisonment you are interpreting to be "the free market."

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#153

Post by ajross »

chime wrote: post #148
ajross wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one pays penalties for simple mistakes. That's what FOX news tells you, but it's not true. We've made five-figure goofs on taxes in the past and a simple letter explaining the mistake (assuming it's an explainable mistake and you didn't get caught in actual attempted fraud) is enough to get the penalty waved.

The penalty is in interest on the taxes. We had an incorrect entry in our 2010 return and had to pay about 12% in addition to the deficient amount. That would've been zero if they just verified it in 2011 and told us that there was an error. That is a penalty as far as I am concerned because I didn't get to choose the rate, I didn't get to fight it, and I didn't get to decide when it was due. It was an error on our p…

No. The current IRS interest rate for unpaid tax is 4%. You apparently paid almost three years late, which is getting pretty far afield from "explainable mistake" or "charge you a giant penalty for !=". Hell, if you had "cheated" and put that money in a mutual fund you'd have made a profit.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#154

Post by JadeNB »

theorique wrote: post #41
clarkevans wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, Government programs have excellent customer service as compared to corporate equivalents. I use one example: student loan servicing. My loans were serviced by the largest company in the business for years, it was pure torture. When the department of education offered to assume the loans, I was happy to have the pain gone. They have been absolutely lovely to work with, clear, transparent and... helpful.

some government programs have excellent customer service as compared to some corporate equivalents I am sure we could find counterexamples here.

The INS (err, BCIS, err, USCIS --a great sign of a well run institution is how many times it needs to change its name cough Xfinity) comes to mind. They are the most horrifying bureaucracy with which I have ever dealt.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#155

Post by nmcfarl »

ajross wrote: post #122
noonespecial wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part about when == is != they get to charge you a giant penalty. That's no accident.

No one pays penalties for simple mistakes. That's what FOX news tells you, but it's not true. We've made five-figure goofs on taxes in the past and a simple letter explaining the mistake (assuming it's an explainable mistake and you didn't get caught in actual attempted fraud) is enough to get the penalty waved.

Interestingly - my experience, on innocent mistakes, has been varied.

I got hammered owing 6 or 8 hundred dollars for a $200 mistake when I was 10 years old and making money off of my paper route. (No, my parents didn't cover the bill nor do my taxes.)

And I made $10,000 mistake five years ago and they said "Oh - whoops, pay your bill and be more careful next time" and then called it a day.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#156

Post by readme »

paulhauggis wrote: post #123
niggler wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government doesn't know your business expenses and various deductions (unless you want to stream your cash and credit card transactions directly to the IRS)

Sweden already has a form of this. There is a black box many retailers need to install which submits all of their daily transactions to the government.

Sure, perhaps we should also station TSA outside every retailer and have them search our bags. That sounds like a privacy nightmare.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#157

Post by rhizome »

danso wrote: post #137

The fact that a tax-hater such as Grover Norquist opposes reforming the tax-filing procedures illustrates the complex dichotomy between giving government good responsibility without giving it dictatorship-like responsibility. In Norquist's opinion, making taxes too easy to file will make citzenry too complacent about how they're being nickel-and-dimed and will lull them into not pursuing reform. OK, fair enough. But…

I would caution against making Grover Norquist the foundation of any inquiry.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#158

Post by salvadors »

joras wrote: post #87

Taxes are prefilled in Estonia also, you can see all of the information on the webpage, and in case of a home loan or investments, you can send that information to the tax form from a bank site with one click. If you're married you can file joint tax. And thats it. The whole process takes about 10 minutes, the deductibles are calculated and returned quite quickly, this year I was returned about 100euros, mostly becau…

On my Estonian tax return last year, I had to declare overseas income too, and was impressed that it even did the exchange rate calculations at the relevant dates for me.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#159

Post by tjic »

ajross wrote: post #122
noonespecial wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part about when == is != they get to charge you a giant penalty. That's no accident.

No one pays penalties for simple mistakes. That's what FOX news tells you, but it's not true. We've made five-figure goofs on taxes in the past and a simple letter explaining the mistake (assuming it's an explainable mistake and you didn't get caught in actual attempted fraud) is enough to get the penalty waved.

> That's what FOX news tells you

Downvoted for egregious politicking. Let's skip the drive-by attacks on FOX and MSNBC, dailykos and drudgereport ... unless they're relevant.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#160

Post by olau »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #118

Couple of notes. 1) The IRS itself gets most of the tax advice wrong that it gives out to taxpayers 2) Paying taxes is one of the few transactional relationships you have with your government. If you ask me, a government representative should come to your office and you should pay him in cash, not hide and automate taxes so that they disappear. 3) There is a difference between a simple tax system and a tax system tha…

To me, it seems you're attacking a strawman sauced up in government-is-evil hyperbole.

The tax system in Denmark is 100% automatic for almost everything. Most people don't have to do anything at all. Once a year, you get a letter or email asking you to check the numbers, you can then go in and add extra information if needed, and that's it. If you discover an error back in time, you can fix that too and get money back or use a credit card to pay if it's in the other direction.

Despite this level of automation, the Danish government manages to change the tax rules almost every year.

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