Bootstrap 3 preview • Hacker News Board

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#151

Post by sc0rb » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 3:55 PM UTC

criley wrote: post #149

sc0rb wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can still have all of that for most of their users. Users that can't use these newer features should be offered a simpler more basic experience. Just because it's a minority of users that want to access your medical claims portal from abroad (who'd have guessed that this would be a valid use case for someone who has bought world wide health cover?) this doesn't mean that you should lock them out. You are very sh…

>You are very short-sighted Haha. We went from talking about my 1-man development website, to travel sites, to medical sites. All because each example is a better fit for your argument. You don't warn me when you change the context of our conversation, you just do it and then insult me afterwards for not meeting your newer demands. Medical =/= travel =/= my site. Each are fundamentally different industries with drama…

Are you kidding me? Both sites have users that need to access various portals from foreign countries. That's the basic similarity between the two sites.

Wait for a better connection... oh yeah sure, I'll just go look for another internet cafe in the middle of nowhere on my travels.... Seriously, you're an idiot.

So many companies get this right. A few don't. I serioulsy hope you suffer

EDIT: I'm specifically referring to people that travel here. As you live in a bubble, I doubt this applies to you or the sort of work you do.

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#152

Post by criley » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 4:00 PM UTC

sc0rb wrote: post #151

criley wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are very short-sighted Haha. We went from talking about my 1-man development website, to travel sites, to medical sites. All because each example is a better fit for your argument. You don't warn me when you change the context of our conversation, you just do it and then insult me afterwards for not meeting your newer demands. Medical =/= travel =/= my site. Each are fundamentally different industries with drama…

Are you kidding me? Both sites have users that need to access various portals from foreign countries. That's the basic similarity between the two sites. Wait for a better connection... oh yeah sure, I'll just go look for another internet cafe in the middle of nowhere on my travels.... Seriously, you're an idiot. So many companies get this right. A few don't. I serioulsy hope you suffer EDIT: I'm specifically referrin…

>Are you kidding me? Both sites have users that need to access various portals from foreign countries. That's the basic similarity between the two sites.

That is the most superficial comparison between two disparate industries that I've seen in some time.

Yes, both are websites that you access.

By this context: I visit mobile gaming websites from foreign countries. According to your analysis, mobile gaming == travel industry == healthcare.

You do, of course, realize that the regulation requirements behind the systems that deliver those websites are dramatically different?

Between HIPAA, ARRA, a bevy of other national regulations and 50 separate state implementations of Medicare/aid with additional privacy and other regulations on the state level, I hope you can appreciate that medical software requirements are fundamentally different.

Implementing a medical portal is an order of magnitude more difficult than a travel portal from the regulation and control side alone.

Put it this way: if you leak user data on a travel site, all you might have to do is write mea culpa and force a password change.

If you leak user data on a medical site: the fucking hammer comes down, public disclosure is mandated and _heavy fines will follow_.

These kind of systemic differences absolutely affect the end user UX and the kinds of priorities that developers have going into it.

Making sure spotty data connections work is less of a priority than making sure a secure connection is present when dealing with HIPAA protected data.

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#153

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 4:05 PM UTC

sc0rb wrote: post #151

criley wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are very short-sighted Haha. We went from talking about my 1-man development website, to travel sites, to medical sites. All because each example is a better fit for your argument. You don't warn me when you change the context of our conversation, you just do it and then insult me afterwards for not meeting your newer demands. Medical =/= travel =/= my site. Each are fundamentally different industries with drama…

Are you kidding me? Both sites have users that need to access various portals from foreign countries. That's the basic similarity between the two sites. Wait for a better connection... oh yeah sure, I'll just go look for another internet cafe in the middle of nowhere on my travels.... Seriously, you're an idiot. So many companies get this right. A few don't. I serioulsy hope you suffer EDIT: I'm specifically referrin…

[deleted]

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#154

Post by sc0rb » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 5:22 PM UTC

criley wrote: post #152

sc0rb wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? Both sites have users that need to access various portals from foreign countries. That's the basic similarity between the two sites. Wait for a better connection... oh yeah sure, I'll just go look for another internet cafe in the middle of nowhere on my travels.... Seriously, you're an idiot. So many companies get this right. A few don't. I serioulsy hope you suffer EDIT: I'm specifically referrin…

>Are you kidding me? Both sites have users that need to access various portals from foreign countries. That's the basic similarity between the two sites. That is the most superficial comparison between two disparate industries that I've seen in some time. Yes, both are websites that you access . By this context: I visit mobile gaming websites from foreign countries. According to your analysis, mobile gaming == travel…

All I'm saying is... websites and portals that are accessed from devices and connections, in emergency-ish situations, should really have fallback modes so they work when I'm stuck in immigration in a third world country (or hospital).

long haul airline sites and medical insurance sites fall under this category. I'm not talking about this from any other perspective than accessibility under less than desirable conditions.

I don't really see how this has anything to do with American state laws. Accessing a portal that tells an insurance company that I need treatment abroad is a simple. Can you please burst your god damn bubble. We're talking about JS and CSS fallback not the united states of americas various laws in regards to medical records.

Have you ever left the US?

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#155

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 5:34 PM UTC

sc0rb wrote: post #154

criley wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are you kidding me? Both sites have users that need to access various portals from foreign countries. That's the basic similarity between the two sites. That is the most superficial comparison between two disparate industries that I've seen in some time. Yes, both are websites that you access . By this context: I visit mobile gaming websites from foreign countries. According to your analysis, mobile gaming == travel…

All I'm saying is... websites and portals that are accessed from devices and connections, in emergency-ish situations, should really have fallback modes so they work when I'm stuck in immigration in a third world country (or hospital). long haul airline sites and medical insurance sites fall under this category. I'm not talking about this from any other perspective than accessibility under less than desirable conditi…

[deleted]

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#156

Post by criley » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 5:57 PM UTC

sc0rb wrote: post #154

criley wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are you kidding me? Both sites have users that need to access various portals from foreign countries. That's the basic similarity between the two sites. That is the most superficial comparison between two disparate industries that I've seen in some time. Yes, both are websites that you access . By this context: I visit mobile gaming websites from foreign countries. According to your analysis, mobile gaming == travel…

All I'm saying is... websites and portals that are accessed from devices and connections, in emergency-ish situations, should really have fallback modes so they work when I'm stuck in immigration in a third world country (or hospital). long haul airline sites and medical insurance sites fall under this category. I'm not talking about this from any other perspective than accessibility under less than desirable conditi…

Yes, sites whose main audience may view it from those limited connections should devote resources to ensuring that they can access it from limited connections.

I clearly stated exactly that in my first original post in this thread. I said, always know your audience and prioritize your development for your audience. I don't know why you've missed me saying that 4+ times at this point. I guess it's because you want to "win" a debate, even though I made your point before you even read my original post.

>I don't really see how this has anything to do with American state laws.

Because accessing data requires you follow the laws governing that data regardless of where the request comes from.

>Have you ever left the US?

Have you ever programmed before? Do you know what software requirements are, or legal requirements, or any of it?

Honestly, you sound like a layman. 100% end user with zero experience in building a portal or medical software or anything else. "Who cares about laws, I'm talking about css fallback". Well, the people who pass and enforce those laws care, even if you don't. And they will make sure you care sooner or later, if you plan on staying in business.

That's the point. You have to care about laws because they're fucking laws! You don't get to just distribute protected medical data over insecure connections because it's convenient for end users! That's illegal.

And protected medical data IS DIFFERENT from non-protected personal travel data!

I know that understanding that difference is difficult for an end-user, but please respect that the concepts are completely different and pretending that "it's the same" only hurts your ability to understand the additional complexity that security laws like HIPAA introduce.

Please do not talk to me any more. I have no interest in replies and have provided this one because you keep stalking me in other posts, so I wish to provide closure.

If you want the last word, please take it here and no where else.

Please stop following me and posting on unrelated threads, it's extremely immature.

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#157

Post by alexvr » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 11:58 PM UTC

crisnoble wrote: post #92

alexvr wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but I never use the grid stuff anyway; I only want to invest time in learning about something if it's not framework/vendor-locked, so to speak, so I'd rather just use the elements and do the scaffolding myself. Glyphicons are probably my favorite part, though.

If you literally only want the buttons, then you should use something like this: http://blog.koalite.com/bbg/ to create the css for your buttons and avoid a whole lot of overhead including the entire framework's css just to get the buttons.

Good to know. I'm seriously considering some ways to cut down on the overhead, so this is great.

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#158

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 12, 2013, 1:17 AM UTC

criley wrote: post #150

lukifer wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the NoScript folks can be ignored for apps. However, for web sites which consist primarily of rich documents, it's polite to at least try to convey the same information. > Specifically building your app to attempt to handle the "bad data connection" use case that users already are familiar with in the context of the internet seems like bad programming. Au contraire: It's the height of good programming to…

>Au contraire: It's the height of good programming to attempt to predict and handle as many real-world errors as humanly possible. If I'm writing a USB device driver, you'd best believe I should try to do something sane if the cable comes unplugged, rather than just saying "don't do that". Should you devote a lot of your limited programming time to catching an exception that users naturally experience during USB oper…

[deleted]

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#159

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 12, 2013, 1:27 AM UTC

criley wrote: post #150

lukifer wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the NoScript folks can be ignored for apps. However, for web sites which consist primarily of rich documents, it's polite to at least try to convey the same information. > Specifically building your app to attempt to handle the "bad data connection" use case that users already are familiar with in the context of the internet seems like bad programming. Au contraire: It's the height of good programming to…

>Au contraire: It's the height of good programming to attempt to predict and handle as many real-world errors as humanly possible. If I'm writing a USB device driver, you'd best believe I should try to do something sane if the cable comes unplugged, rather than just saying "don't do that". Should you devote a lot of your limited programming time to catching an exception that users naturally experience during USB oper…

[deleted]

Re: Bootstrap 3 preview

#160

Post by lukifer » Tue, Mar 12, 2013, 1:36 AM UTC

criley wrote: post #150

lukifer wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the NoScript folks can be ignored for apps. However, for web sites which consist primarily of rich documents, it's polite to at least try to convey the same information. > Specifically building your app to attempt to handle the "bad data connection" use case that users already are familiar with in the context of the internet seems like bad programming. Au contraire: It's the height of good programming to…

>Au contraire: It's the height of good programming to attempt to predict and handle as many real-world errors as humanly possible. If I'm writing a USB device driver, you'd best believe I should try to do something sane if the cable comes unplugged, rather than just saying "don't do that". Should you devote a lot of your limited programming time to catching an exception that users naturally experience during USB oper…

You're presuming a lot on behalf of your users. Not everyone will think to unplug/replug; many will just say "it's broken", unplug, put it away and never use it again.

> But if you have the time and talent to waste on edge cases like this, then why not!

The world is made of edge cases, my friend. :)

At any rate, I think the ideal to pursue is the "tick/tock" strategy: roll out new features aggressively, accepting that there will be imperfections; then take the time to fine-tune and backfill. You can't pre-solve every potential problem, but you can try to catch the major ones, and fail gracefully as much as possible.