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The Apprentice Programmer

tobi.lutke.com

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Re: The Apprentice Programmer

#151

Post by Livven »

kostya-kow wrote: post #47
ahoyhere wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a bias if you look at dropouts as a homogeneous group, because they aren't. It's just as ludicrous to predict the same outcome for someone like me, who was always way ahead and bored to death of school, and a poor kid from the city or country who couldn't read at grade level. I doubt Tobi ever had reading comprehension problems and I bet he was passionate about his hobby leading up to his track switch. A…

I completely agree with you. You expressed exactly what I was thinking. I am 15, and I am planning to drop out of school. It is extremely frustrating trying to persuade my parents that dropping out of school doesn't mean I am giving up on life, and that I am not a failure. I cannot function in this artificial society that exists in schools, and I learn much better by myself. Finishing school would be complete waste o…

Good luck. I'm 17 and finishing up high school now but was thinking about dropping out a year ago too. No one but me thought that was a good idea and in the end I guess I was just too undecided to really follow through, so yeah... btw I'd recommend you to read this essay, it describes the role and artificiality of school quite well, though it seems you're already familiar with it http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

Anyway I wish you the best of luck in your self-learning. Here's hoping you'll be able to spend your time more productively than would have been possible otherwise!

Re: The Apprentice Programmer

#152

Post by zenbowman »

Apprenticeships are awesome, but a lot of comments here refer to dropping out and just going it on your own, which is a lot different from an apprenticeship, which, for better or worse, we don't have here. I would recommend the apprenticeship route if we had one, but as we don't, a college degree will make your life a lot easier.

And one of the best reasons to go to college for computer science is making friends who share your interests, those are the people you will network with to find great jobs, start new companies, etc. So while the classroom environment might not be thrilling, there is plenty of education to be had outside the classroom. If you are super enthusiastic, you might even get to work on cutting edge research as an undergrad in a university lab.

Re: The Apprentice Programmer

#153

Post by bromang »

keithpeter wrote: post #132
bromang wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the UK system is an extremely poor version of the German system. To implement an apprenticeship model, the state HAS to take direct control over the hiring of almost all entry level employees. otherwise the incentives and work culture is simply not in place for a large number of meaningful training opportunities to exist.

Er, no, we need to rebuild some kind of manufacturing sector first! Then make sure companies have their own apprenticeship schemes (proper ones not the shelf stacking ones)

the vast majority of German apprenticeships are not in traditional industrial roles or trades like plumbing. the existence of quality post-school training opportunities has little to do with the existence of a strong manufacturing sector.

Re: The Apprentice Programmer

#154

Post by icelancer »

kyllo wrote: post #138
icelancer wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wont argue that private college in the US isn't brokenly expensive for most mayors. The University of Washington is $13,000 per year for residents, who are preferentially screened and rejected because tuition for in-state residents is too cheap. UW costs $30,000/year for out-of-state residents who are more likely to be admitted since it's more than twice the cost. By the way, the University of Washington is a publ…

UW is overwhelmed with demand. They've set up satellite campuses in Tacoma and Bothell to handle the overflow, especially for business courses. When I went there in 2003-2007 it was still a deal for the quality of education, and my degree was definitely worth what I paid for it (about $5,000-6,000/year) but the price has more than doubled since then. If I had to choose a university at current prices I'd probably go t…

I think $13,000/year is absolutely reasonable at UW. However, you have to be exceedingly intelligent to get in there - which most are obviously not. They screen in-state residents because they don't get enough tuition from them, so the standards are very high if you live in WA state.

So I question whether or not the University of Washington is really a public institute in that regard.

Let's not even talk about what it costs to go to Seattle University or Gonzaga.

Re: The Apprentice Programmer

#155

Post by walshemj »

keithpeter wrote: post #146
walshemj wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is NOT an apprentice that is a Technician (aka Associate professional) doing the a traditional day release course (ONC/HNC/BTEC) for Technicians which is how I came into IT. Clever apprentices would only go on to do this after doing there 4/5 years. And ok my BTEC was a some what specialized one (mech eng with Thermofluids) but we looked down on the "apprentices" form the local Garages. Though I suspect (bor…

" But that is NOT an apprentice that is a Technician (aka Associate professional) doing the a traditional day release course (ONC/HNC/BTEC) for Technicians which is how I came into IT. " Actually, it is. The Ordinary National Certificate was replaced with the B/TEC National Diploma half a decade before I came into teaching in 1989. You must be a mature person! And yes, the whole program takes 4 to 5 years. With anoth…

cough well I can still recall having to hand load the boot strap into our PDP 11's when the boot loader failed a couple of times.

And remember being dead jealous of the management school at Cranfield having 40!! color pc's donated by HP (this is pre IBM PC) - when we had 4 or 5 total.

Re: The Apprentice Programmer

#156

Post by pascalo »

sebastianmarr wrote: post #133

I also live in Germany and am currently writing the thesis for my masters degree in CS. In my case, I wished I left college after getting my bachelor. I had a solid foundation of theoretical CS knowledge after 3 years. I continued to study only because I wanted the degree, in case I "need" it later to get a job. For over a year now I didn't see any lectures, but have been working at a company instead. I had all my ex…

What's the cost for a semester these days? Did they introduce fees?

What you're doing would be a very unlikely scenario in systems where studying is setting you back a couple of thousands every term, i.e. Australia, UK or the US.

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