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It's time for Mark Zuckerberg to resign from Meta

theguardian.com

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Re: It's time for Mark Zuckerberg to resign from Meta

#151

Post by Amezarak »

ModernMech wrote: post #149
Amezarak wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberal democracy does not mean that the government and other authorities hide information and opinions from people for fear it might make them “anxious and depressed.” I gave you a specific example: should they stop letting people see content relating to the climate emergency because it makes many people anxious and depressed? That is the view of paternalistic authoritarian states whose primary concern is public har…

We're not talking about the government and authorities, we're talking about Facebook. The government showing people information that makes them anxious and depressed isn't the same as a for-profit entity intentionally tailoring individual feeds to maximize people's specific anxieties and depression because they discovered it generates billions of dollars, allowing their executives to live in opulent luxury floating o…

OK, so who is deciding what information makes people “anxious and depressed” and therefore what Facebook is allowed to republish in feeds? Would it be reasonable for Facebook to censor all information about the climate emergency to protect people from feelings of anxiety and depression, even if they engage with it?

Re: It's time for Mark Zuckerberg to resign from Meta

#152

Post by Amezarak »

_ink_ wrote: post #147
Amezarak wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, well, I support liberal democracy and all that entails. So we’re kind of fundamentally at odds here and probably won’t be able to find common ground.

That's ok. Thank you for the discussion. But I do wonder, should Russia and China be allowed to use these tools to sow distrust against our Democracy? For me the tolerance paradox formulated by Karl Popper comes to mind and it is a clear no.

Why is it this line of reasoning never goes into questioning just who the forces endlessly propagandizing about the need to censor social media are? Is this not sowing distrust in democracy itself? (If you can’t trust your electorate not to believe Chinese propaganda, what does that say about your attitude towards democracy as a system?) Who is doing this and why? That would seem to be very salient since much of the reporting on bot campaigns has since been discredited, with whole organizations confabulating these stories then laundering them through the media to push their desired political outcome. (C.f “new knowledge.”)

Foreign propaganda in democracies is as old as democracies themselves. It is by no means anything new; foreign influence campaigns spent enormous sums and labor trying to sway democracies from the very beginning - often very successfully. I don’t see why it’s any different for it to be published on Facebook instead of laundered through print media and rumor mills. At the end of the day you either recognize these problems and appreciate that trusting your electorate/having a liberal democracy is the best option we have compared with the alternatives…or you don’t.

Re: It's time for Mark Zuckerberg to resign from Meta

#153

Post by berytos_storm »

Amezarak wrote: post #152
_ink_ wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ok. Thank you for the discussion. But I do wonder, should Russia and China be allowed to use these tools to sow distrust against our Democracy? For me the tolerance paradox formulated by Karl Popper comes to mind and it is a clear no.

Why is it this line of reasoning never goes into questioning just who the forces endlessly propagandizing about the need to censor social media are? Is this not sowing distrust in democracy itself? (If you can’t trust your electorate not to believe Chinese propaganda, what does that say about your attitude towards democracy as a system?) Who is doing this and why? That would seem to be very salient since much of the…

> At the end of the day you either recognize these problems and appreciate that trusting your electorate/having a liberal democracy is the best option we have compared with the alternatives…or you don’t.

Many of those democracies are trending illiberal thanks to the useless yet arrogant liberal decrying of “there’s simply nothing else we can do” and championing a rotting status quo.

Re: It's time for Mark Zuckerberg to resign from Meta

#154

Post by Amezarak »

berytos_storm wrote: post #153
Amezarak wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it this line of reasoning never goes into questioning just who the forces endlessly propagandizing about the need to censor social media are? Is this not sowing distrust in democracy itself? (If you can’t trust your electorate not to believe Chinese propaganda, what does that say about your attitude towards democracy as a system?) Who is doing this and why? That would seem to be very salient since much of the…

> At the end of the day you either recognize these problems and appreciate that trusting your electorate/having a liberal democracy is the best option we have compared with the alternatives…or you don’t. Many of those democracies are trending illiberal thanks to the useless yet arrogant liberal decrying of “there’s simply nothing else we can do” and championing a rotting status quo.

They are trending illiberal because of the tension between elites who think ignoring and censoring the popular will on various issues is wise and the voters who see that and think the only solution is a drastic one.

Several western countries could kill their more extreme parties overnight simply by enacting a few reforms with immigration and/or affordability.

Re: It's time for Mark Zuckerberg to resign from Meta

#155

Post by cyclopeanutopia »

tristanj wrote: post #72

This article is very shortsighted. If you think Meta is bad now, just wait until Zuck is replaced by a soulless, profit-obsessed corporate CEO whose primary job is maximizing shareholder profit. Meta as a company can get far worse. People should really be careful what they wish for.

Are you implying that Zuckerberg has a soul?

Re: It's time for Mark Zuckerberg to resign from Meta

#156

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #135
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mark Zuckerberg owns the majority of voting shares." He only owns about 13% of Meta's voting shares, not a majority But he owns 99.8% of Class B shares Class A get one vote per share Class B get 10 votes per share No doubt the author is aware of Meta's voting structure hence her choice of the words "voluntarily resign" The author suggests "the board" or "Meta", not the shareholders, some of whom are not on the board…

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