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I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

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Re: I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

#151

PLEASE GET PROFESSIONAL HELP FROM ANOTHER DOCTOR RIGHT AWAY. Here's the framework I see; recent startup founder + therapy for seven years + abused as a child + ten pills per day. This alone screams for professional help. I don't think that a fellow entrepreneur can help solve all of your problems. There's also the danger of making it worst because of not having any training on how to deal with your framework. Now to…

Wow! You're doing exactly what you seem to know on some level is bad: you're giving him lots of very specific advice without having any basis for doing so. Apologies for any harshness but I want to answer you strongly. 1. It's very possible that leaving his current therapist in order to "pivot" is a terrible idea. He should talk to his current therapist about his feelings that therapy isn't work, and consider talking…

> 1. It's very possible that leaving his current therapist in order to "pivot" is a terrible idea. He should talk to his current therapist about his feelings that therapy isn't work, and consider talking to another professional, maybe one who takes a different approach, at the same time until he feels clarity about what to do. > A lot of work gets done in 7 years of therapy. Sometimes there are low points, but it is a major step to throw that away.

It is my experience that if things aren't working with a current therapist--whether this is the case needs to be seen, but after 7 years with the same therapist, he's on 10 pills/day, he experiences a serious relapse and feels he has to call on HN for help, is not a good sign. After 7 years there should be some more professional safety-nets installed.

Anyway, if it's not working well, get a new therapist. From personal experience, sticking with the same one for too long while you know it's not going further has done nothing but slow progress. The reasoning is, a therapist is also a creature of habit and they're not going to change their general approach much, even if you discuss the matter with them. And I don't mean trying out different meds or therapy, but the sort of general approach they use in their profession. And there's nothing wrong with that, even the really good ones do it, and even with them I still got stuck after some time, simply because their bag of tricks (as good as it may be) ran out and we tried all the things. And that's nobody's fault because therapy isn't a hard science or engineering problem, so it's very possible that even the "best" one runs out of ideas while another may have some approach that fits you right now (which is another factor: a patient changes as a person, the therapist that was right when you were at point X in your life may not be the one you need right now).

Disclaimer: this may be bad advice because of reasons of US Healthcare that I know nothing about. So, Think For Yourself. But also don't go waiting for a therapist to fix things if it doesn't seem like they're doing that. Which I need to repeat, is not (necessarily) a failure of the therapist, but sometimes a new pair of eyes can get you moving again, if the old pair got stuck.

Re: I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

#152
post #144

PLEASE GET PROFESSIONAL HELP FROM ANOTHER DOCTOR RIGHT AWAY. Here's the framework I see; recent startup founder + therapy for seven years + abused as a child + ten pills per day. This alone screams for professional help. I don't think that a fellow entrepreneur can help solve all of your problems. There's also the danger of making it worst because of not having any training on how to deal with your framework. Now to…

Do therapists / psychiatrists / psychologists really help? Genuinely interested. I would never consider (have never considered) seeing a therapist / psychiatrist, even if/when depressed. I imagine them to be people with soft science degrees who believe in a wishy-washy mixture of psychobabble and pseudo-science. Surely an intelligent person can see what their questions are getting at and influence the therapist's inf…

> I imagine them to be people with soft science degrees who believe in a wishy-washy mixture of psychobabble and pseudo-science. Surely an intelligent person can see what their questions are getting at and influence the therapist's inferences accordingly, in the same way as you can when taking those silly multiple choice psychological assessments?

A psychiatrist (in NL) first goes through regular medical school (5 years) and then another 4 years of study + on the job study for psychiatrist. (maybe there's one year overlap because I seem to remember it's 8 years total)

While maybe an intelligent person can figure out a lot of things for themselves--even if we ignore the fact that it's harder to figure out without a bit of distance--surely somebody (also intelligent) who's studied for ~8 years in this very field, will be better at spotting and making such assessment than a very intelligent person that trained their intellect in some other field.

If I had a big and important carpenting job, I'd hire a skilled and trained carpenter as well, even if I could probably do and/or figure out most of it myself. Over some level of complexity, I wouldn't even try, I'd hire a carpenter. Add to that, "figuring it out for yourself" becomes much harder if the subject is "yourself" instead of "my house/furniture".

From what I understand, psychiatrists in the US are a bit more like psychologists here. But with 4-5 years of study and who knows how many years of experience, they're still pretty good at it.

One thing though, a very important red flag (IMO), if after a while with a therapist you really get the idea "I could do this better, this person doesn't really get me", then get a new one. Therapists come in many shapes and sizes, and often it's important that you get one that can at least match your intellect to some extent, or it may become hard to trust them (if you can't help but second-guessing them). There will be therapists that can deal with this, talk about particular skeptic feelings and explain it in a way that is acceptable to you. But if they keep setting off all those alarm bells, you're not seeing one of those.

Re: I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

#153
Hey, if your startup fails, just can always find work at another company. There is still a future. It is OK to fail, it is OK to feel depressed. You are not the value of your startup.

Depression is hard and it hurts. You can actually rewire your neural pathways. Therapists can help with this. It gets better.

Re: I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

#154

PLEASE GET PROFESSIONAL HELP FROM ANOTHER DOCTOR RIGHT AWAY. Here's the framework I see; recent startup founder + therapy for seven years + abused as a child + ten pills per day. This alone screams for professional help. I don't think that a fellow entrepreneur can help solve all of your problems. There's also the danger of making it worst because of not having any training on how to deal with your framework. Now to…

>PLEASE GET PROFESSIONAL HELP FROM ANOTHER DOCTOR RIGHT AWAY.

Seconded. There are also hotlines that you can call any time of the day or night if you are desperate. SEEK HELP. New help if the old isn't working.

Re: I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

#155
Sorry to hear about your problem. Three thoughts that hopefully can help you

1. Heard this from a Vietnamese Buddhist Monk on depression that made a lot of sense to me: "Nothing can grow without food - stop feeding your depression and start feeding something that you want for yourself - health, wellness, happiness"

2. Another good advise I heard from a noble guy on depression - get out of yourself and try to do something good for someone else. you will see something shift inside you and you will feel better. Service is something that can instantly get you out of your depression

3. Try to find a community where you can visit and interact with people. Human contact and personal interaction (not online) can make a lot of difference

Hope this helps and good luck SKR

Re: I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

#156
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do therapists / psychiatrists / psychologists really help? Genuinely interested. I would never consider (have never considered) seeing a therapist / psychiatrist, even if/when depressed. I imagine them to be people with soft science degrees who believe in a wishy-washy mixture of psychobabble and pseudo-science. Surely an intelligent person can see what their questions are getting at and influence the therapist's inf…

> I imagine them to be people with soft science degrees who believe in a wishy-washy mixture of psychobabble and pseudo-science. Surely an intelligent person can see what their questions are getting at and influence the therapist's inferences accordingly, in the same way as you can when taking those silly multiple choice psychological assessments? A psychiatrist (in NL) first goes through regular medical school (5 ye…

Don't most people see psychologists, though? Psychiatrists cost much more, so most people see the less rigorously schooled psychologists instead due to insurance policies. That's been my impression of it, anyway. You really don't have to be all that smart to be a psychologist, unfortunately; psych being one of those squishy soft "sciences" that doesn't really have much in the way of academic rigor. Psychiatrists here go undergrad (4 years), med school (4 years), and then go on to their residencies and etc. Psychologists have to do psych undergrad and then complete a doctorate I believe to practice on you, but again: chances are pretty decent that someone in a technical field will probably be more intelligent. (An argument could probably be made that psych people might have higher EQ, I suppose.)

I'm sure they work for some people, but there are so many bad and underqualified ones who basically just sit there and listen to you without offering much in the way of insights (but sometimes offering up insults, in my experience). I think a bad therapist can be really damaging, which is unfortunate. People in these sorts of situations don't really need any more things going against them.

edit: I'm in the US, so that's where I'm coming from. When I reread this I realized you're referencing a system outside of the US.

Re: I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

#158
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I imagine them to be people with soft science degrees who believe in a wishy-washy mixture of psychobabble and pseudo-science. Surely an intelligent person can see what their questions are getting at and influence the therapist's inferences accordingly, in the same way as you can when taking those silly multiple choice psychological assessments? A psychiatrist (in NL) first goes through regular medical school (5 ye…

Don't most people see psychologists, though? Psychiatrists cost much more, so most people see the less rigorously schooled psychologists instead due to insurance policies. That's been my impression of it, anyway. You really don't have to be all that smart to be a psychologist, unfortunately; psych being one of those squishy soft "sciences" that doesn't really have much in the way of academic rigor. Psychiatrists here…

In NL, psychiatrists are able to prescribe drugs, because they did medical school before their psychiatrist education. Often a therapy centre employs psychologists that do most of the sessions, and one or a couple of psychiatrists for the prescriptions (usually after seeing the patient at least once--that's probably mandatory, would make sense). Of course a patient's GP could also make the prescription, at request of a psychologist.

Re: I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

#159
post #144

PLEASE GET PROFESSIONAL HELP FROM ANOTHER DOCTOR RIGHT AWAY. Here's the framework I see; recent startup founder + therapy for seven years + abused as a child + ten pills per day. This alone screams for professional help. I don't think that a fellow entrepreneur can help solve all of your problems. There's also the danger of making it worst because of not having any training on how to deal with your framework. Now to…

Do therapists / psychiatrists / psychologists really help? Genuinely interested. I would never consider (have never considered) seeing a therapist / psychiatrist, even if/when depressed. I imagine them to be people with soft science degrees who believe in a wishy-washy mixture of psychobabble and pseudo-science. Surely an intelligent person can see what their questions are getting at and influence the therapist's inf…

Both my mother and step father are therapists, both had clinical experience - my mum worked predominantly with young girls with eating disorders as she was beginning her career, then she switched to adults and then into a business consultant. My step father on the other hand worked with drug addicts, now applying innovation in coaching (using Second Life as a tool, for instance).

I would put it this way: apart from really impressive experience and knowing very well what goes on in people's minds (of course in a different way than the neurologists do), my mother has never paid for a speeding ticket, because she knows how to talk to a policeman to avoid the fine, discovering all his weaknesses, fears, frustrations in 5 seconds - honestly, I'm not exaggerating! She get's paid for two hours of work what many people earn by working the entire month.

She usually deals with CEOs and other top-management guys who, for instance, are extremelly good and efficient in what they do, but their subordinates cannot stand the pressure the boss is creating, or to put it straight - the managers are practically monsters. And so she comes in and turns a Steve Jobs into a Wozniak, if you know what I mean.

Think for a second of a police negotiator who persuades a terrorist not to blow himself up, or a suicidal person not to jump out of the window.

I know I have used the examples remotely related with therapy, but I wanted to give you a broader picture of what this artful science (yes!) is coupable of.

There are of course certain limits to what can be achieved and an experienced psychologist is able to define if a person needs to consult a psychiatrist to get medication, or if recovery is at all possible - the goal of the therapy can be differently defined, sometimes it is just to make the patient "stable", but healing is not possible.

To give you an example, while meeting my mother at the mental institution where she worked, I once stumbled upon the head of the drug addictions department whom I asked what is their "success rate" in therapy. She asked me: "What do you mean?" - "How sure you can be that a person is not going back to the addition", I replied.

"We are sure that almost all our patients sooner or later would return to drug abuse". I was shocked, but this is the realistic, frank approach.

To sum it up let me just mention that when my dear mother was doing PhD she had a very distinguished supervisor, one of the best specialists in the country, for many years the chairman of the National Psychologists Association (not in US/UK obviously), and one of his most important books was titled something like "The therapeutic aspects of therapy", and his conclusion was "talking to people change them, but it is yet to be discovered how and why".

Re: I am depressed and I need someone to talk to

#160
post #57

Travel. Leave your smartphone and laptop at home. Take your friend with you and go. There is a lot of good places on Earth and this is important to choose the right one to visit, so choose wisely. Don't go to safari or similar shitty entrtnmnt for rich guys. Don't buy a tour with all the trash included. Move on your own. Stay in the plain hotels. Taste the local food. Visit the monasteries and museums. Talk to people…

I really really really think travelling will help with depression, at least for me...BUT NO MONEY, NO TIME!!!
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