Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience, it looks almost identical, just mirror imaged. Lots of anger and fear, a strong certainty that they know the full story about every issue and that the other side is evil or idiotic. No grace or space in their hearts to consider that many of today's contentious issues are actually complicated, with overlapping and conflicting ethical arguments.
I'm noticing a lack of any concrete examples of left wing extremism in this comment. Right wing extremism is like, that lady from the UK who made a tweet asking everyone to burn down a hotel full of migrants.
The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
151–160 of 229 posts
Re: The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Interestingly, he has a lot of people on what he calls the "Woke Right" (e.g Tucker Carlson) who also hate him. Is that interesting? I get accused of being a labour supporter in conservative areas and conservative in more left leaning areas. It's all part of the problem being discussed. If you don't precisely agree with someone, you must be one of 'them', and when you're in the middle, or have nuanced views, both e…
I have a speculative theory that core of the "woke right" did not originate from pre-existing conservative politics, but in fact emerged from segments of the political left finding themselves marginalized by the mainstream left-wing's increasing focus on identity politics over the past 10-15 years. Many people departing left-wing communities for this reason began to reframe their political identities in opposition to…
I'm kind of in the same boat as I don't agree with the identity politics, but I still count myself as left of centre.
Re: The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
#153The good part of this: don't fall into the trap of believing the proposition "an idiot disagrees with me, so I must be right". That's solid advice, idiots believe countless true things and geniuses believe innumerable false things. The intelligence of a random interlocutor has nothing to do with the validity of their opinions, really, so it shouldn't serve as evidence one way or another. Generally, I try to pay atten…
I agree. In general you're pointing out one failing of this post, but I think there are a whole host of things that are missing from it to be anywhere near a substantial guide.
Don't fall into the trap of "an idiot disagrees with me, so I must be right" is a great observation/rule! But it's like the first level of the reasoning game (if the game even has linear levels).
There is value in that, and trying to provide even more observations would likely make the post fall flatter when readers disagreed with at least some (and/or the author didn't do a good job on some in favor of his primary point).
But "If you can’t find those people in the real world, turn to the internet and find them there" is especially fraught, as this subjects you to much different memetic hazards that the article doesn't touch upon at all. Meaning if you seek out online discussion communities and find their more-reasoned arguments refreshing, you're right back at the entrances to rabbit holes of extremism [author's usage] that are emotionally attractive rather than rationally considered.
Re: The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would counter with people who believe the earth is flat. This is in fact an extreme belief. The best part is, I don’t care if people believe this, not even a little a bit. I care when they start arguing with me and trying to jam their belief down my throat. I didn’t even ask, you brought it up and you’re mad at me because I disagree. I think this is the more interesting point to consider. Having a belief, any belie…
Where would you draw the line between someone advocating for their belief vs shoving it down your throat? Does the "extremeness" of the belief factor into the judgement? If so, how are we not back at the original question of the definition of what an extreme belief is?
As to your question, there are a lot of extreme beliefs that sometimes end up becoming true. IIRC the person who first advocated for washing hands because of tiny "things" that could make people sick, he was laughed out of the room, and he was right. It was an extreme belief at the time.
I basically reject the whole premise that "no belief is extreme" because there are countless examples throughout history of extreme beliefs that the world considered extreme, and they turned out to be true. Didn't make the belief any less extreme at the time.
Re: The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
#155The good part of this: don't fall into the trap of believing the proposition "an idiot disagrees with me, so I must be right". That's solid advice, idiots believe countless true things and geniuses believe innumerable false things. The intelligence of a random interlocutor has nothing to do with the validity of their opinions, really, so it shouldn't serve as evidence one way or another. Generally, I try to pay atten…
About 70% of American adults can name all three branches of government. That leaves about 81m Americans who cannot. I'm sure you were a very clever 8yo, many of the people here spent a lot of their childhood being told they were clever. That said, suggesting that the other 30% of the country less clever than 8yo you should be excluded from political discussions is somewhat illiberal in my mind. Perhaps the notion we'…
Re: The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience, it looks almost identical, just mirror imaged. Lots of anger and fear, a strong certainty that they know the full story about every issue and that the other side is evil or idiotic. No grace or space in their hearts to consider that many of today's contentious issues are actually complicated, with overlapping and conflicting ethical arguments.
I'm noticing a lack of any concrete examples of left wing extremism in this comment. Right wing extremism is like, that lady from the UK who made a tweet asking everyone to burn down a hotel full of migrants.
Re: The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and you've definitely never called your Congresspeople to complain about their votes Or, you know, you haven't lived at the same address for twenty years. In your imagined world where every single citizen either has something so pressing to call their representatives about or is just ignorant, you're still basically filtering out everybody who moved for a job/college/SO/whatever recently. I guess in your mind it's…
Feels a little disingenuous to quote this line and not the full section where OP was just asking you to know your local representatives. I've never called anyone about anything political, and I also haven't lived at the same address (or even in the same state) for 20 years but I still know at least who my senators are and some of my representatives. State elections are every two years; you have to almost actively not…
The general point being that simplistic rules can be great heuristics, but turning them into strict logical conditions is doomed to failure. Even about simple "fizzbuzz" style things.
Re: The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
#158Re: The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
#159How do we know this? Because capitalists demonstrably and objectively behave as though they have class solidarity. Yes, they compete in the market and even through political corruption, but they are very organized and committed to basic principles that benefit all capitalists: anti-labor policies, weak anti-corruption laws and enforcement, tax breaks and loopholes, etc. They have lots of money, so they obviously support policies that make it easier to transmute money into power over others. This is not ideological, but a matter of material class interests. Musk's "makers vs takers" framing is Marxism, but from the point of view of a capitalist.
Likewise, it's totally possible to be a middle-class anti-labor Marxist. Marxism is only a lens to look at things through, and what it ultimately says is about the class position of whoever is looking through it. It's about identifying what one's interests are, not necessarily a prescription of what to do about it.
Re: The main way I've seen people turn ideologically crazy (2025)
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience, it looks almost identical, just mirror imaged. Lots of anger and fear, a strong certainty that they know the full story about every issue and that the other side is evil or idiotic. No grace or space in their hearts to consider that many of today's contentious issues are actually complicated, with overlapping and conflicting ethical arguments.
I'm noticing a lack of any concrete examples of left wing extremism in this comment. Right wing extremism is like, that lady from the UK who made a tweet asking everyone to burn down a hotel full of migrants.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-antifa-cell-members-no...