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Waymo in Dallas

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Re: Waymo in Dallas

#151

Post by xnx »

sudokatsu wrote: post #96
epolanski wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very interesting, because on one side we have clear data showing that autonomous cars at the Waymo level are safer than humans. On the other hand we don't give technology the same pass we give to humans, meaning that we don't tolerate machine incidents the same way we tolerate human ones. Which means that self-driving cars need to be a magnitude of order safer than humans. And even though a self-driving car will…

We don’t tolerate machine incidents because who is liable if an accident occurs? A company with a $4.6 trillion market cap? They’re not a legal opponent any of us really want to take on.

Lawyers are salivating at the possibility of suing Waymo if they ever make a mistake. Much better to be hit by a Waymo (or a Tesla Robotaxi) than the typical uninsured, "judgement proof", human driver.

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#152

Post by reaperducer »

epolanski wrote: post #123
reaperducer wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can that be anywhere near financially sustainable. All you have to do is basic math. Monthly car payment (which is higher if you're poor) + monthly gas spent (which is higher if you buy it in a poor neighborhood) + monthly insurance (which is likely to be higher if you're poor, and/or live in a poor neighborhood) + maintenance is very often far less than what it costs to take a rideshare ride 14 times a week. Whe…

Aren't you going 20 times per month, twice, that's 40 rides. At an average 25$ you're spending 1'000$/month on Uber.

Aren't you going 20 times per week, twice, that's 40 rides.

Work 5 days a week = 10 rides. Plus four rides on the weekend, or not. That's why I used 14.

Where do you get 40 rides per week?

At an average 25$ you're spending 1'000$/month on Uber.

Even if someone did 40 rides per week at your posited average of $25/ride, that's $4,000, not $1,000. Are you letting an LLM do math for you?

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#153

Post by massysett »

How do the cars do when breaking a rule is necessary? For instance, a car is broken down in the one forward lane of a two-lane road, requiring the waymo to cross the double-yellow line to get around it. Or, a signal is red for so long that obviously its car detector isn’t working.

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#155

Post by xnx »

dmitriy_ko wrote: post #137
YKutsev wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been in a Waymo in SF — impressive tech. But I keep wondering: does the math actually work? Car + all the sensors + maintenance + mapping. Can a single vehicle ever turn a profit?

Uber rides are around $1.5 per mile on average. Assume Waymo car drives 200K miles over it's lifetime, 3mi/kWh EV efficiently and $0.20/kWh electricity cost. It will generate $300K over it's lifetime and use $13K worth of electricity. Right now it costs $150K to manufacture Waymo car because they are custom built and Lidars are still expensive. Even at $150K unit economics should be OK. But the cost of self driving c…

Good calculation approach. Waymos will drive a lot more than 200K miles in their lifetime. Taxis often do a million miles. There are already photos out there of Waymo odometers over 100K.

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#156

Post by sudokatsu »

epolanski wrote: post #127
dylan604 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a human driver messes up, there's a person to hold responsible. When a robot car messes up, who is held responsible? If the human messes up to the point they are no longer allowed to drive, that person is no longer on the streets to cause more mistakes. When a robot car messes up, are all of the other cars pulled off the streets as well until the glitch is fixed? Every robot car is essentially the same driver.

> When a robot car messes up, who is held responsible? The company owning and operating the robot?

Ah yes, can’t wait to sue Google on equal monetary and political footing. It will be very easy, and very fair. /s

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#157

Post by skybrian »

vb-8448 wrote: post #138

I'm just curious how it works on the legal side: if a human run the red light he gets a fine, who gets fined with a waymo car? If the car I'm in cause a big damage or kill someone? I guess the damage will be paid by the insurance but whom insurance? Mine or waymos? And what about criminal implications? Insurance doesn't cover thoose for sure.

It should be the same as for any public transport: it's the service operator's responsibility to run the system. The rider doesn't need insurance.

I imagine Google has enough money that they can self-insure. Particularly since it's a very low accident rate.

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#158

Post by austinl »

cortesoft wrote: post #60

I live very close to LAX, and we have hundreds of Waymos in our area. At first i was a little weary, and kinda weirded out by all of them. They have become completely normal, and cause WAY fewer traffic incidents than human drivers. They are very predictable, and will always let you pull in front of them when changing lanes (unlike a lot of other LA drivers). I have seen a few incidents where they seem 'stuck', and i…

In SF, there's a crosswalk on a street near me where cars regularly go 35 mph, so they rarely stop for pedestrians. A few days ago, I was waiting on the sidewalk to cross, and a Waymo stopped. I was so surprised, at first I thought it was letting someone out. It took a few seconds to realize that no, it was stopping for me to cross the street.

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#159

Post by sudokatsu »

xnx wrote: post #151
sudokatsu wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t tolerate machine incidents because who is liable if an accident occurs? A company with a $4.6 trillion market cap? They’re not a legal opponent any of us really want to take on.

Lawyers are salivating at the possibility of suing Waymo if they ever make a mistake. Much better to be hit by a Waymo (or a Tesla Robotaxi) than the typical uninsured, "judgement proof", human driver.

Any stats to back up that the _typical_ driver is uninsured?

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#160

Post by phoghed »

dylan604 wrote: post #122
epolanski wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very interesting, because on one side we have clear data showing that autonomous cars at the Waymo level are safer than humans. On the other hand we don't give technology the same pass we give to humans, meaning that we don't tolerate machine incidents the same way we tolerate human ones. Which means that self-driving cars need to be a magnitude of order safer than humans. And even though a self-driving car will…

When a human driver messes up, there's a person to hold responsible. When a robot car messes up, who is held responsible? If the human messes up to the point they are no longer allowed to drive, that person is no longer on the streets to cause more mistakes. When a robot car messes up, are all of the other cars pulled off the streets as well until the glitch is fixed? Every robot car is essentially the same driver.

Why would it work any differently than any other category of product or service? If you’re rich you can sue them, if not you’re fucked.

Unless there’s a very bad and widespread issue. Then you join a class action and get $24 on a visa giftcard you can’t figure out how to redeem and then forget about.

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