Fantastic work by the compiler/author, and lovely work by all those developers and designers through the years. Great contribution to HN
As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
151–160 of 160 posts
Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
#152I think that if every app has to explain to the user how to use their own operating system, that operating system is not intuitive. I’ve been using Macs for a long time but I had to look up how to install an app the first time I did it.
The quote I like is "The only intuitive interface is the nipple, every other one has to be learned"
So as long as an interface is consistent with prior interfaces I guess it is "intuitive"
I have never used mac, but it sounds like a good interface to me, not the .dmg one, that one is. weird. but where the application is self constrained in it's own directory. The traditional unix method where the parts go according to their function (/bin /lib /share and all the /usr variants) is fine when all the software is system software(promotes reuse) and sort of works when you have a sys-admin whose job is to incorporate third-party software as system software(central package systems also fit this category), But it really starts to stink when you have independent third parties packaging their own software.
Another way to think about it is what is the best hierarchy function/application or application/function
Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
#153Counterpoint: as a Mac user it is surreal to click Next Next Next to install a program on Windows. Same for uninstalling. Move to Trash and poof, unistalled. There is no standard way to install stuff, so neither MacOS nor Windows deviates from something. For all the bickering about it here in the comments, no one proposed an “ideal” solution to install a program on Mac.
> Same for uninstalling. Move to Trash and poof, unistalled. That removes most of the program files, but there is no chance for the program to run any cleanup process in the mean time. Library Support, .cache, and all other kinds of remnants remain and have no way of getting cleaned up without manual user intervention. It's like hunting down broken uninstaller files in Windows 98 all over again. The places that need…
This may have been handwaved in the past, because config files don't take that much storage.
But Sequoia and up have strict management of background agents in "Settings / Login Items".
It fills up with so many broken references, duplicate entries, etc... I have no idea how a normal user is supposed to remove trash from that list. I pointed an agent at it, asking it to remove any broken references.
Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
#154I think that if every app has to explain to the user how to use their own operating system, that operating system is not intuitive. I’ve been using Macs for a long time but I had to look up how to install an app the first time I did it.
The quote I like is "The only intuitive interface is the nipple, every other one has to be learned" So as long as an interface is consistent with prior interfaces I guess it is "intuitive" I have never used mac, but it sounds like a good interface to me, not the .dmg one, that one is. weird. but where the application is self constrained in it's own directory. The traditional unix method where the parts go according t…
> The quote I like is "The only intuitive interface is the nipple, every other one has to be learned"
And then some dickhead put nipples on laptop keyboards and it was awful.
Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I run Linux since 25 years, so if you're telling me that it's not "fit for purpose" then I question your ability to see purpose. Also I think you're cargo culting. You have problems with existence of systemd while praising an OS that doesn't even allow you to disable transition animation delays when changing virtual screens. It's not logical. Btw, pulseaudio is old news, now it's pipewire.
What part of " doesn't run the software I need it to run" are you struggling to understand?
I'm not struggling because I don't really need nor want to understand that. The fact that you want to run macos-specific software doesn't affect me at all, and has nothing to do with macos being better than anything else.
I'm using linux-native software all the time, that has no equivalents in other systems.
Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
#156It’s neat the amount of care and thought that used to go into just an icon or a one off dmg background screen.
I can remember styling my Windows XP and Linux machine back in the day, I didn’t have the money to afford a Mac but I could make my machine look like one or even nicer than Aqua, and it was all because the many great artists freely sharing their works (like Louie Mantia mentioned in the article).
So many great artists on Neowin and AquaSoft, I believe some even went to work for Apple.
Cool article, thanks for sharing.
Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
#157As someone who started on Windows then went to Macs, I always and still find the "installer" method absolutely horrid.
Why do I have to run an app before I can run an app?? Why do they all look different? Why do most of them insist on shoving other crap into my computer??
Copying a prepackaged bundle is the more intuitive way: You take something from outside and you bring it into your house/put it on your desk.
And then deleting it when you're done (leftover settings files being an optional "pro" step)
Let's not even talk about how "Alt+F4" remotely evokes "close/quit" and other weird shit Windowsers assume is normal.
Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a tiny little arrow in the corner to indicate that it's a shortcut. But this really confused me when I first started using macOS as well. You're just expected to know that the applications folder in the disk image you just downloaded isn't actually inside of the disk image. When I first opened a .dmg, I thought the arrow symbolised some kind of progress bar and waited for a moment to let it do its installatio…
i actually vividly remember when they started introducing that flow... the first time i came across it was a total knee-jerk negative reaction. unrelated to that, i switched to windows a few years later (my old imac wasnt good enough to play world of warcraft)... but when i came back to it 10+ years later, it still felt strange. i mean its neat from a minimalism perspective, but the decision to not ship with a regula…
> but the decision to not ship with a regular installation UI in OG macOS X came with the tradeoff of not cleanly _uninstalling_ software either. config files etc were always left over.
But they have regular installers, they are called .pkg and look like a wizard. Programs distributed as a single .app don’t really need them though.
Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
#159I'm not a Mac user, and have no.comment about the drag to application folder thing. But as a Linux and windows user, I always liked how windows could have portable apps. These dmg files seem similar to having a portable app. Back in the day I had a usb with my favourite apps and distros on it.
I might be wrong since I've never used a Mac before.
Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
The quote I like is "The only intuitive interface is the nipple, every other one has to be learned" So as long as an interface is consistent with prior interfaces I guess it is "intuitive" I have never used mac, but it sounds like a good interface to me, not the .dmg one, that one is. weird. but where the application is self constrained in it's own directory. The traditional unix method where the parts go according t…
> The quote I like is "The only intuitive interface is the nipple, every other one has to be learned" And then some dickhead put nipples on laptop keyboards and it was awful.
Until you try and use a device in a moving bouncing vehicle, touchscreens and pads are infuriately bad, but that silly nipple, rock solid, works fine.
It is a niche use case but it made me a convert.