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Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

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Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#151

Post by Grombobulous »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #147
userbinator wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped using Google once it started requiring JS for search. That was the day the open web truly died.

Notice how HN replies have no explanations for why Google now requires JS, after not requiring it for 27+ years and when other search engines today don't require it I stopped using Google Web search as well after this point NB. The autocomplete endpoint at clients1.google.com for example does not require Javascript, nor HTTPS One could take the Google suggestions and search those strings in other search engines. Woul…

Conversely, little explanation is given as to why a JavaScript requirement negatively impacts users.

I’ve stopped using Google search as well but JavaScript is the least of their sins.

It’s completely reasonable for a website to require/leverage a technology that literally 100% of their customers have.

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#152

Post by krupan »

ssl-3 wrote: post #104
janalsncm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of this thread is that you cannot replace search engines with an LLM. If your example is an LLM using a search engine as a tool call, you have not replaced the search engine. It’s still there.

Yes. An external search engine is still there, for now. But the user doesn't necessarily know anything about that, and they don't necessarily care. If/when the time is reached when external search engines are no longer present in the LLM loop, it seems likely that regular folks won't even notice this shift. As long as the answer-making machine keeps making answers, they won't have any reason to pay attention to this…

I love where this is going. Where does the answer-machine get it's answers in this scenario? How do we double check the answer-machine's answers?

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#153

Post by ssl-3 »

krupan wrote: post #152
ssl-3 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. An external search engine is still there, for now. But the user doesn't necessarily know anything about that, and they don't necessarily care. If/when the time is reached when external search engines are no longer present in the LLM loop, it seems likely that regular folks won't even notice this shift. As long as the answer-making machine keeps making answers, they won't have any reason to pay attention to this…

I love where this is going. Where does the answer-machine get it's answers in this scenario? How do we double check the answer-machine's answers?

> I love where this is going. Where does the answer-machine get it's answers in this scenario?

It gets its answers from an archive of whatever used to be the Internet, and the last remaining publication: The Costco Flyer.

> How do we double check the answer-machine's answers?

That's the best part: We don't!

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#154

Post by dorgo »

userbinator wrote: post #108
binarymax wrote: post #7

I'd be more OK with this if Google had a good API for their search results. But they've deprecated it, and now there is no alternative. So I'll continue to use 3rd parties that scrape Google results, until they change their mind.

I stopped using Google once it started requiring JS for search. That was the day the open web truly died.

What? Google search works fine for me ( JS disabled in ublock origin ). Lots of other sites are broken, but google search works.

Edit: now I'm worried. Is JS actually disabled?

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#155

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #147
userbinator wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped using Google once it started requiring JS for search. That was the day the open web truly died.

Notice how HN replies have no explanations for why Google now requires JS, after not requiring it for 27+ years and when other search engines today don't require it I stopped using Google Web search as well after this point NB. The autocomplete endpoint at clients1.google.com for example does not require Javascript, nor HTTPS One could take the Google suggestions and search those strings in other search engines. Woul…

Why is a "Disable Javascript" option provided in every so-called "modern" browser

Why would a user prefer in some cases not to use Javascript from an adtech company

Depends on the user. For example, here's one user who publishes a website on the subject

https://disable-javascript.org/

Consider the level of data collection and behavioral surveillance enabled by the SearchGuard Javascript at issue in Google LLC v SerpApi LLC, as described here:

https://searchengineland.com/inside-google-searchguard-46767...

Google LLC is an adtech company

Google LLC may claim that this Javascript is an access control to protect material copyrighted by others

But the court in Google v SerpApi has found that to be false, with the possible exception of "Knowledge Panel" material. The court found that Google LLC is not authorized to protect the returned URLs in a SERP as copyrighted material

If the purpose of this Javascript is not access control for copyright protection then what is its purpose

Can the user control this Javascript. No, it's under the control of Google LLC

Can the user control how the data collected by GoogleLLC via SearchGuard or other Javascripts is used or where it may be sent. No

Mitigation may require disabling Javascript

https://captaincompliance.com/education/tracking-technologie...

https://medium.com/@Kevin_Finnerty_Gabagool/adtech-the-silen...

https://arxiv.org/html/2508.07454v2

https://adguard.com/en/blog/weblock-location-tracking-survei...

Many of these tactics, including Real-Time Bidding (see AdGguard blog post), as implemented by adtech companies such as Google, require Javascript

It is reasonable that a user might prefer to avoid running Javascript from adtech companies, such as Google LLC

Some of us have been searching the www since before Javascript existed

Using others' Javascript is a choice the user gets to make. Adtech commpany Javascript for web search should be optional. Costs may outweigh benefits. Depends on the user

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#156

Post by Plont »

Grombobulous wrote: post #151
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice how HN replies have no explanations for why Google now requires JS, after not requiring it for 27+ years and when other search engines today don't require it I stopped using Google Web search as well after this point NB. The autocomplete endpoint at clients1.google.com for example does not require Javascript, nor HTTPS One could take the Google suggestions and search those strings in other search engines. Woul…

Conversely, little explanation is given as to why a JavaScript requirement negatively impacts users. I’ve stopped using Google search as well but JavaScript is the least of their sins. It’s completely reasonable for a website to require/leverage a technology that literally 100% of their customers have.

[dead]

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#157

Post by userbinator »

Grombobulous wrote: post #151
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice how HN replies have no explanations for why Google now requires JS, after not requiring it for 27+ years and when other search engines today don't require it I stopped using Google Web search as well after this point NB. The autocomplete endpoint at clients1.google.com for example does not require Javascript, nor HTTPS One could take the Google suggestions and search those strings in other search engines. Woul…

Conversely, little explanation is given as to why a JavaScript requirement negatively impacts users. I’ve stopped using Google search as well but JavaScript is the least of their sins. It’s completely reasonable for a website to require/leverage a technology that literally 100% of their customers have.

Just going to copy the dead sibling comment because it says the truth:

"Allowing javascript can create security vulnerabilities (e.g. in the case of infected ads), and it is used for browser fingerprinting, so that users can be tracked and ad targeted across sites (especially if the information is sold, as part of a database, to third parties who combine it with other databases) even when they deny cookie and local storage permissions and aren't logged in to a google account and are using a vpn or proxy. If you go to one of those "how unique is my browser" test websites, if you have javascript blocked, they have comparatively almost nothing to go off.

It also always loads slower and uses more data and ram than plain HTML, and unfortunately many people in rural areas still have shitty internet service and/or old hardware. And it's rubbish if you just want to browse the internet on something like an ereader or an old laptop.

Unless you specifically need features that aren't possible without it, it's a worse experience, and Google is choosing to make it mandatory for the whole site instead of just for the specific features that need it because it's good for their ad revenue. It's a means for Google to track and sell the data of users who are trying to opt out and preserve their privacy.

I haven't found a single other search engine that does this. I'm pretty sure even Bing doesn't (although they do their "log in for reward points" thing instead)."

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#158

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #155
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice how HN replies have no explanations for why Google now requires JS, after not requiring it for 27+ years and when other search engines today don't require it I stopped using Google Web search as well after this point NB. The autocomplete endpoint at clients1.google.com for example does not require Javascript, nor HTTPS One could take the Google suggestions and search those strings in other search engines. Woul…

Why is a "Disable Javascript" option provided in every so-called "modern" browser Why would a user prefer in some cases not to use Javascript from an adtech company Depends on the user. For example, here's one user who publishes a website on the subject https://disable-javascript.org/ Consider the level of data collection and behavioral surveillance enabled by the SearchGuard Javascript at issue in Google LLC v SerpA…

*AdGuard

*company

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#159

Post by account42 »

jonatron wrote: post #6

It's quite important that SERPs are scrapeable, because they keep advertising scams like ETA/ESTA sites: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56886957

> Applying for an Esta travel permit to visit the US should cost no more than $14

Ah, good old times.

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#160

Post by account42 »

izacus wrote: post #69
Terr_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to imagine how the world would be different, if internet advertising giants were partially liable for scams/malware that they facilitate.

Imagine how world would be different if the actual scammers and malware creators would be prosecuted and not insteead demanded that internet giants play a privatized police force.

We also hold the getaway driver responsible in case of a robbery. Turns out we can charge both the primary perpetrators and any accomplices.
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