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The Dark Night of Mathematics

kirwinhampshire.substack.com

151–160 of 321 posts

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#151

Grateful for this essay. Made me feel seen. Someone said: > No one is stopping you from doing what you enjoy. But that's wrong. LLMs are creating an environment in which some things are no longer enjoyable. For example there is less joy to be had in learning a programming language in 2026 than there was in 2016, because there is less utility in it now.

Joy should not come from utility but its fundamentality of enjoyment. I still learn different programming languages because it's fun to do so, so sounds like it's a you problem.

“You shouldn’t find joy from things the way you said you do. Sounds like a you problem.”

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we'll have free health care, boomers will rent their apartments for $100, everyone will have UBI and a Tesla with a warp drive that travels to the terraformed Mars. Hayek and Friedman predicted it!

I almost never hear the story that I find the most believable: that a small group of people will use AI to demolish the 99.999% of us.

You never hear this story? It's all everyone is talking about in the media it seems, with "techno fascism" apparently and killer robots in bunkers and K shaped economy. In fact I almost never see the utopic take, everything is just dystopic.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#153
post #22

One way to differentiate between an art or a craft and a science is that if a genie appeared and offered to trivialize all the discovery work of your career and simply give you the answers today, and you'd say "no", you're probably not doing science.

Not even wrong. Real scientists say "yes" to the genie with all the answers? And artists and crafts people don't? The entire statement is nonsense, and offers no insight into art or science. It's almost like a language model generated a plausible sentence that is grammatically correct but has no relation to the real world. Perhaps if the analogy was between science and engineering.. A plumber would say "yes" to the g…

Their sentence makes perfect sense to me. Science is about knowledge, art is about the process of creation. Conflating the two is just doing a hobby at that point.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#154
post #108
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The creation is the actually enjoyable part. Taking a helicopter to the top of Everest is not as rewarding as climbing the mountain. You are completely discrediting the joy humans derive from actually -doing- the work, and not just, telling someone else to do the work. There is a reason artists hate AI, its because they enjoy the actual act of painting, like mathematicians enjoy the act of proving theorems and progra…

you can’t climb to the moon, you need rockets for that. In the hands of great researchers, AI will accelerate and propel human knowledge far beyond what we could achieve with pencil and paper alone.

> In the hands of great researchers, AI will accelerate and propel human knowledge far beyond what we could achieve with pencil and paper alone.

Who needs researchers when you have great AI.

Soon we will all be Wall-E fat people with AI that's there to do anything we can be bothered to think of.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#155
post #35
post #22

One way to differentiate between an art or a craft and a science is that if a genie appeared and offered to trivialize all the discovery work of your career and simply give you the answers today, and you'd say "no", you're probably not doing science.

Disregarding the competing definitions of “science”, a significant value in mathematical work is “the journey”. The truth or falsehood of individual results are rarely as important as the machinery developed to deliver it. If all the genie did was tell you something was true or false, the only learning you gain is to backtrack and develop the machinery yourself. To a certain extent this is true of the other sciences…

Maybe the genie provides full proofs of each result. So will the journey still matter? For a true mathematician it should not.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#156

Grateful for this essay. Made me feel seen. Someone said: > No one is stopping you from doing what you enjoy. But that's wrong. LLMs are creating an environment in which some things are no longer enjoyable. For example there is less joy to be had in learning a programming language in 2026 than there was in 2016, because there is less utility in it now.

Agreed. Something being potentially useful to myself or others is a major motivating factor in learning it. Other people thinking something is cool is a major motivating factor in creating it. If the things I can learn are useless, why learn? If the things I create are unimpressive, why create? I have never been one to create "for myself".

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#157
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joy should not come from utility but its fundamentality of enjoyment. I still learn different programming languages because it's fun to do so, so sounds like it's a you problem.

“You shouldn’t find joy from things the way you said you do. Sounds like a you problem.”

Exactly. If they just do things for utility I struggle to see if they did it for joy in the first place. A painter still paints even if there is some perfect machine that can paint. This sounds like the same crisis many artists had when photography was invented.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#158

Grateful for this essay. Made me feel seen. Someone said: > No one is stopping you from doing what you enjoy. But that's wrong. LLMs are creating an environment in which some things are no longer enjoyable. For example there is less joy to be had in learning a programming language in 2026 than there was in 2016, because there is less utility in it now.

Why must this result in less joy.

Chess has utility in only the most abstract sense, yet people enjoy it.

Computers became better than humans, and some dispared, but more still enjoy it.

Computers provide insight into the problem, which leads to a greater enjoyment for many people. Instead of finding a move in a complex state and thinking 'I'll never know if that was the best move'. A good chess engine can give a reasonable suggestion of what the best move actually was.

It does take from you the feeling of being special.

We are no longer the only world in existence, we are no longer the center of the universe. We are no longer crafted by a all powerful benign being to be exactly how we should be to rule this world. We are no longer the only things that can play a good game of chess.

That hurts a sense of pride, but I'm not sure it was a worthy sense of pride.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#159
> Mathematicians are, indeed, also paid to teach, peer-review, go to conferences and learn mathematics, but all of that better result in some damn good theorems.

As a mathematician who publishes theorems, I think this is mistaken. New theorems in abstract and pure fields of mathematics never had the economic value of what mathematicians are paid. Even creative works of art can be displayed but mathematical papers are unread by anybody except a tiny number of people who wouldn't want to pay all that much for them if they had to.

The economic value of mathematicians is to teach mathematics. Proving theorems is how we build the credentials we need to be trusted to be allowed to teach it. Teaching young and less young people how to navigate through a mathematical problem is how we make ourselves useful.

LLMs coming up with counter examples to obscure conjectures (albeit old and important to a small number of people) is only a threat in that it removes this ritual of belonging.

Many people are excellent teachers (and very competent mathematicians) without publishing new theorems, and many theorem producers are atrocious teachers.

Perhaps the pecking order may change. Or maybe something else will happen. Maybe society will decide to replace all its teachers with AI, or that mathematics is no longer worth learning. I don't know. But what I know is that nobody saw any of the papers I wrote or the theorems I proved and thought "that's money well spent".

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