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Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

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Re: Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

#151

Post by epolanski »

stonecoldman wrote: post #140
theflyingpigeon wrote: post #96

I have a similar trajectory. I attended two very competitive military schools in Brazil but never finished and moved to America. Today I’m a senior software engineer at a FAANG company. The lack of diploma has never been a barrier and I progressed very quickly in the company from junior to senior (4 years). But this has always been a perceived pain point and limiter for me so I decided to get a CS degree during COVID…

So you got into one of Faang before 2020’s hype? Not surprising that you could do that without any degree. Nowadays there are so many smart guys from unis and colleges like Standord or MIT who couldn’t get into even a small company. “No degree but no problem” sounds like totally ignoring your own luck.

The current market values experience (if there's any position at all) above 0 experience leetcode black belts.

Re: Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

#152

Post by epolanski »

appplication wrote: post #114
theflyingpigeon wrote: post #96

I have a similar trajectory. I attended two very competitive military schools in Brazil but never finished and moved to America. Today I’m a senior software engineer at a FAANG company. The lack of diploma has never been a barrier and I progressed very quickly in the company from junior to senior (4 years). But this has always been a perceived pain point and limiter for me so I decided to get a CS degree during COVID…

I had an unrelated undergrad did my MSCS online (not JHU but same idea). It was great. But if you’re already senior at FAANG I’m not sure you need further legitimacy.

> But if you’re already senior at FAANG I’m not sure you need further legitimacy

For rat raceing the pyramid it is still a differentiator at executive level.

Nobody wants to be held accountable, if projects go south, for having promoted to a leadership position a self taught engineer.

It's really about politics and accountability more than anything.

Re: Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

#154

Post by Lazurus »

__rito__ wrote: post #122
mathisfun123 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Johns Hopkins Masters in AI (online) do whichever one of these online MS which permit you to leave off the "online" part (i.e., are awarded through the conventional faculty). i'm not sure johns hopkins does but OMSCS from gatech does.

GaTech only permits OMSCS if you have a 4 year undergrad. In many countries undergrads are three years. Even you have a Master's, that is also not counted. 4 years undergrad or nothing.

[dead]

Re: Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

#155

Post by grumple »

pipes wrote: post #149

I'd really love to know how this person filled the gaps in their maths knowledge, it's the thing that put me off trying this in the past.

I have found khan academy to be really good for filling any math gaps - it goes up through linear algebra and differential equations. Coursera also has a bunch of math courses you can take as well.

Re: Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

#156

Post by f6v »

epolanski wrote: post #151
stonecoldman wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you got into one of Faang before 2020’s hype? Not surprising that you could do that without any degree. Nowadays there are so many smart guys from unis and colleges like Standord or MIT who couldn’t get into even a small company. “No degree but no problem” sounds like totally ignoring your own luck.

The current market values experience (if there's any position at all) above 0 experience leetcode black belts.

But layoffs create a market where people have both experience and good degrees.

Re: Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

#157

Post by f6v »

dirkc wrote: post #128

Wow, I'm surprised that doing an online course through coursera is still that expensive - £17,000 or $22,000 USD over 3 years! Interestingly it does seem comparable with what it would cost through The Open University - https://www.open.ac.uk/courses/computing-it/degrees/bsc-comp...

The diploma doesn't say it was earned through Coursera. And it's probably still cheaper than doing the program in-person.

Re: Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

#158

Post by LtWorf »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #22
lvl155 wrote: post #17

CS degree is not all that fun. You’re better off doing math and just learning to code on the side.

Further to this point, it's quite common to favour a candidate with a strong STEM degree who has learned to code as an adjacency.

Then you end up with people who create software with hundreds of threads and a global lock so that the threads are actually completely sequential but also much slower. Seen this from an electrical engineer who became a coder. Just one example out of several.

Re: Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

#159

Post by cml123 »

stonecoldman wrote: post #140
theflyingpigeon wrote: post #96

I have a similar trajectory. I attended two very competitive military schools in Brazil but never finished and moved to America. Today I’m a senior software engineer at a FAANG company. The lack of diploma has never been a barrier and I progressed very quickly in the company from junior to senior (4 years). But this has always been a perceived pain point and limiter for me so I decided to get a CS degree during COVID…

So you got into one of Faang before 2020’s hype? Not surprising that you could do that without any degree. Nowadays there are so many smart guys from unis and colleges like Standord or MIT who couldn’t get into even a small company. “No degree but no problem” sounds like totally ignoring your own luck.

I think attributing it to luck is a bit uncharitable. They described getting in on talent over credential. I also don't hold a degree. I've worked with a handful of Ivy League interns over the years and none of them blew me away. Certainly none were at the level I was at when I interviewed without a degree. I think I'm _fortunate_ to have gotten into the work without a degree, but it wasn't _luck_, it was ability.

Re: Completing a computer science degree on Coursera

#160

Post by dahart »

bonoboTP wrote: post #129
dahart wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’d be disingenuous to assume the conversation is about anything other that the economic trade off. To me it seems hollow and sad to think about higher education purely in job and money terms, but maybe I’m weird. I studied what I wanted to learn about, and was naïve about any economic trade offs. There were a few companies I thought were cool and dreamt about working for, and at some level I knew it’d take a degr…

It's not necessarily fully causal though. You'd need a comparison group who are just as intelligent and conscientious and equally rich as the college graduating population for comparison. They would likely find ways to demonstrate their value in other ways if forced not to attend college.

No you don’t need to do a study. We already know college is causal in the sense that you can’t get good jobs without the credential. The job market already enforces the causal relationship. And that’s a major reason why the advice to go to college is sound advice: we know for a fact that it broadens one’s options and enables a vast set of higher paying jobs. Whether this system is good or fair is reasonable to debate, but doesn’t change today’s economic “tradeoffs”.

What you’re asking is whether the credential represents a measurable and valid increase in skill and learning, and ideally adjusted for socioeconomic status. That’s an interesting question, and there’s a whole field of literature on this topic. But the answer to that question won’t change the economics nor the advice.

Many papers go much further than what you suggest and they adjust for things like race and family history of higher education, in addition to intelligence and family income. I have read through quite a few papers myself, and the conclusions I’ve seen vary on where they land on the causality axis between true learning and credentialism, but none of them come to the conclusion that true learning isn’t a significant factor. And it would be pretty silly to assume that people who spent 4 years learning learned nothing, right?

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