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Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

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Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#151

Post by xingped »

lenkite wrote: post #128
Night_Thastus wrote: post #102

No they don't. Why should they bother? * Costs them money to make * Costs them money to maintain * Will only be used by a TINY subset of ultra-enthusiasts (no, neither HN or Reddit are majorities) * Every user on it is less telemetry and less advertisement The reality is that most users don't care, and will just use whatever seems to work fine. Finding out that 'oh yeah, feature/software X does not work on Windows Li…

With over 1 billion monthly active users, reddit is not a minority and is a significant fraction of internet users. Btw, people complain about Windows bloat on Whatsapp too. Now, that IS a majority of internet users.

You have to realize that the majority of reddit "users" are either bots (especially now with LLMs making it so easy to generate text on the fly) or utterly braindead. Just last week I got banned and comment deleted from a subreddit calling out someone for deliberately spreading false information. Their comment? Still there.

I have one friend who just loves listening to AI readings of AI-generated drama farming content purporting to be real content from Reddit. It's bizarre.

I also found at least one subreddit for a product which specifically banned posts with the word "scam" in them when I went to make a post about the product being a scam. If that doesn't tell you how much of a scam it actually is, I don't know what does.

Even before the rise of LLMs, everyone knew Reddit was astroturfed to hell and back.

Reddit mods are largely paid shills. Reddit users are zombies. It's worthless to consider the site as a good source of information or sentiment anymore.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#152

Post by hypercube33 »

LoganDark wrote: post #148
ramon156 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your reasons but not with "the majority doesn't care". Sure they do. The internet is filled with Windows hate, and Reddit isn't as small as you remember it to be. The majority has no other option. Linux is too much trouble to learn and Mac requires a new device. What else are you supposed to do?

Hey, Mac is a huge learning experience too. If your mind is set in the ways of Windows, you are gonna have a bad time when you assume Mac is just as bad (easy example: using clunky Windows workarounds to avoid problems that don't exist on Mac). You almost become oblivious to the straightforward way of doing things because Windows is so fucky. It can be really hard to get an average person used to Windows to find valu…

Up until OS 26 I'd agree with you but honestly it's not far off from windows other than some small permissions annoyances and the stupid natural scrolling. I got a neo out of desperation to do some audio work and immediately felt at home where I never did on my older Air.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#153

Post by LoganDark »

hypercube33 wrote: post #152
LoganDark wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, Mac is a huge learning experience too. If your mind is set in the ways of Windows, you are gonna have a bad time when you assume Mac is just as bad (easy example: using clunky Windows workarounds to avoid problems that don't exist on Mac). You almost become oblivious to the straightforward way of doing things because Windows is so fucky. It can be really hard to get an average person used to Windows to find valu…

Up until OS 26 I'd agree with you but honestly it's not far off from windows other than some small permissions annoyances and the stupid natural scrolling. I got a neo out of desperation to do some audio work and immediately felt at home where I never did on my older Air.

I strongly prefer natural scrolling, though I did grow up with it. I think 26 was a huge mis-step and Apple is going to need to go back on a lot of what they did (which they are starting to do with 27, though they have a long ways to go).

I miss how tight the older versions were. They were technical and got the job done -- the newer designs seem like they're trying too hard to be round and big and friendly. Everything is so spaced out, so much is wasted, information density is pretty much completely gone. It's so sad.

My Intel MBP is still on 10.14.6 because even Catalina was too much for me (removing 32-bit support is kind of a full-reinstall sort of move). But Big Sur looked kinda awful the moment I saw it and Tahoe feels like the Mac is completely losing its identity and principles.

I'm on ASi now and running the latest macOS 27 beta. I don't regret it but I just feel sad, you know?

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#154

Post by LoganDark »

xingped wrote: post #151
lenkite wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With over 1 billion monthly active users, reddit is not a minority and is a significant fraction of internet users. Btw, people complain about Windows bloat on Whatsapp too. Now, that IS a majority of internet users.

You have to realize that the majority of reddit "users" are either bots (especially now with LLMs making it so easy to generate text on the fly) or utterly braindead. Just last week I got banned and comment deleted from a subreddit calling out someone for deliberately spreading false information. Their comment? Still there. I have one friend who just loves listening to AI readings of AI-generated drama farming conten…

Bigots can exist without being paid shills...

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#155

Post by hypercube33 »

debugnik wrote: post #150
chris_money202 wrote: post #6

OP says Windows needs builders to make applications and that is what Windows Lite would enable (or expand) but then says Windows Lite shouldn't include .NET one of the primary frameworks to build applications on Windows.

The .NET that comes with Windows is the ridiculously outdated .NET Framework 4.8. But most greenfield projects should have been using the newer .NET (previously .NET Core) for several years now, which is installed separately or deployed as self-contained apps.

The majority of software runs on old outdated .net framework and no one is going to take the time to port it to .net 10 even though it only takes a short time to do so itself, but keep in mind a lot of this isn't the porting it's the testing, release which includes 20 year old enterprise clients who are stingy about change and paying for any updated anything.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#156

Post by vovavili »

CamouflagedKiwi wrote: post #28
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #9

> no .NET Not quite sure about this. .NET is a superb platform, easy to write reasonably good code, huge standard library, well-maintained, many languages supporting a wide variety of paradigms (C#, VB, F#, PowerShell, C++). .NET is one of Microsoft's success stories.

It's also kind of pointless. Almost immediately, something will be installed that will require installing the .NET runtime, maybe multiple versions of it. If the argument is to try to prohibit it, then it just won't work as a platform, because too much existing software won't work on it. There's a lot of garbage I'd love to not have (all the stupid hardware config apps all the manufacturers push on you) but just havi…

>Almost immediately, something will be installed that will require installing the .NET runtime, maybe multiple versions of it.

That's because Windows ships with an ancient .NET 4.8.1 by default. Purely a mistake on Microsoft's part not to bundle modern .NET with their product and force software packaging hell.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#157

Post by tpoacher »

There is already a "Windows Lite", and it's called ReactOS [0].

Except, the last thing we need is for Microsoft to own / embrace-extend-exterminate this. It's best that it's kept as an independent project, enabling developers to target the Windows API if they feel like it, while ensuring that they only target the Wine-compatible parts of it, which then enables their software to also run seamlessly on other platforms at no extra effort, and without requiring either the users or the devs to have to lock themselves into this ungodly telemetry-spying-ads-AI-.NET mess that the article talks about.

Microsoft, on the other hand, has zero to gain from making a Windows Lite variant themselves given their lifeline is exactly this telemetry-spying-ads-AI-.NET ecosystem; and they have zero to gain from absorbing ReactOS or similar projects, other than in order to eliminate them.

[0] https://reactos.org/

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#158

Post by tpoacher »

chris_money202 wrote: post #6

OP says Windows needs builders to make applications and that is what Windows Lite would enable (or expand) but then says Windows Lite shouldn't include .NET one of the primary frameworks to build applications on Windows.

How about this analogy then:

"OP says Windows needs webdevs to make webpages, but then says Windows Lite internals shouldn't be tightly knit with Internet Explorer, one of the primary means of viewing webpages on windows."

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#159

Post by sph »

tpoacher wrote: post #157

There is already a "Windows Lite", and it's called ReactOS [0]. Except, the last thing we need is for Microsoft to own / embrace-extend-exterminate this. It's best that it's kept as an independent project, enabling developers to target the Windows API if they feel like it, while ensuring that they only target the Wine-compatible parts of it, which then enables their software to also run seamlessly on other platforms…

I think the author meant something that can be used in practice for real work, not a cyclopean effort of clean room reimplementation of Windows as a hobby for part-time volunteers.

The reality is as you said, only Microsoft can make Windows Lite, and they don’t care to.

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