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Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
151–160 of 209 posts
Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
And replace all your apps with some horrible Tcl/Tk and .NET interface? Nobody ever made good native widgets.
Qt Widgets are good.
No, they suck. No swiping, no pull-to-refresh, no multitouch zoom, the calendars dropdowns are horrible to use, the buttons look like something out of Windows 3.1
Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Price fixing is legal as long as your are doing it in the open. In the U.S., competitors are allowed to act in similar ways in response to economic realities, as long as they each arrive at that decision independently. But publicly anchoring your price to a competitor’s is potentially illegal. > Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct ) among competitors to raise, lower, maintain, or…
Identical prices are often a sign of intense competition. Every gas station on a corner has the same price because it's a highly competitive market not because of collusion. The prices of the much more lucrative chocolate bars inside the gas stations are less likely to be identical.
Gas stations on the same corner (or almost the same) in fact frequently have different prices, often quite different. A few examples.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AeRZsAeGQAHoYvd36
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cdcbxQuEYLBFVECc7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/k8zAVMrwxkKYsoA8A
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nrQmyShTk9P8YEmo9
Too many consumers think that there are enough differences in additives and detergents between the brands for it to make a significant different in mpg and in maintenance costs, so buy from "their" brand even if there is a cheaper brand nearby.
At one time those consumers would have been right, but first the EPA established certain minimal standards that all brands had to meet. The better brands were still better for your car than the ones just meeting the minimum, but it would take longer for it to make a significant difference.
Then BMW, GM, Honda, and Toyota made a spec for what makes a good detergents and additive mix, and most other major automakers joined. They created a certification, "TOP TIER", that gas companies that met that standard could use.
Nowadays most gas in the US is certified TOP TIER. Generally you will only find non-TOP TIER gas at stations not part of a major chain, at some gas brands owned by grocery chains (Safeway for example), and at some gas brands owned by convenience stores (7-Eleven for example).
Most independent tests have found that and detergents and additives beyond those required for TOP TIER certification do not make a significant difference, even cumulative over 300+k miles.
Nowadays then in the US just buy from any TOP TIER brand and that will be good enough. But consumers don't seem to know that and so for a large number of consumers different brands on the same corner aren't actually in competition.
Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Identical prices are often a sign of intense competition. Every gas station on a corner has the same price because it's a highly competitive market not because of collusion. The prices of the much more lucrative chocolate bars inside the gas stations are less likely to be identical.
Gas stations on the same corner (or almost the same) in fact frequently have different prices, often quite different. A few examples. https://maps.app.goo.gl/AeRZsAeGQAHoYvd36 https://maps.app.goo.gl/cdcbxQuEYLBFVECc7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/k8zAVMrwxkKYsoA8A https://maps.app.goo.gl/nrQmyShTk9P8YEmo9 Too many consumers think that there are enough differences in additives and detergents between the brands for it to ma…
This is a good signal of how competitive your gas market is. Your examples are Seattle and the valley, which are very difficult markets for gas stations, so unsurprisingly are uncompetitive.
The whole US gas station market has gotten less competitive over the last 40 years I've been observing prices and big coastal cities are a lot worse than anywhere else.
Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Qt Widgets are good.
No, they suck. No swiping, no pull-to-refresh, no multitouch zoom, the calendars dropdowns are horrible to use, the buttons look like something out of Windows 3.1
Those are touchscreen actions, uncommon in desktop apps. Did you forget that this thread is about avoiding Electron bloat?
(Also, it has a theme engine. The buttons don't look like something out of Windows 3.1 unless you use a Windows 3.1 theme.)
Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A business can choose to artificially restrict supply if they want, there's no mandate that they must meet demand. There is, however, no incentive to do this when prices are high unless you expect competitors to do likewise, since otherwise you're just handing the business to the others when they increase production. Which strongly implies that if that's what everybody is doing, they're colluding. > The hard part i…
> There is, however, no incentive to do this when prices are high unless you expect competitors to do likewise This imagines a world where water production can be dialed up and down instantly, at no cost, with no risk. It doesn’t work that way though. Hiring people, scaling up factories, converting to 24/7 all have costs and risks. Just google (or Claude, or whatever) memory companies that went backrupt overbuilding…
> This imagines a world where water production can be dialed up and down instantly, at no cost, with no risk.
It only images a world in which the profit-maximizing amount of wafer production is higher when demand is higher, which is a completely reasonable premise to take as the default.
> Just google (or Claude, or whatever) memory companies that went backrupt overbuilding to meet a spike in demand. There are many. You probably don’t even know their names. Because Micron/etc stood pat and survived.
Those long forgotten companies like Intel, Toshiba, Texas Instruments, IBM, etc. that are all now bankrupt and no longer exist. Except that they still do exist, they just sold their DRAM divisions to the current incumbents. Even the divisions that went bankrupt -- for Qimonda (Infineon) it was the 2008 housing crash that did them in.
Predicting events like that isn't reasonably possible. What Micron actually did to survive it was keep a large reserve of cash to survive the lean years, not refuse to build fabs. The South Korean companies did the equivalent by being subsidiares of giant conglomerates.
Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
The arguments made by the Plaintiff are thoroughly convincing to me. The fact that those 8 points are not enough to convict indicate the industry is fucked. Of course the defendants didn't leave a paper trail - they've already been convicted of collusion before. It's the people and country that suffer when our government fails to ensure markets are free and fair.
If there is no agreement, then the magic term is "tacit collusion." Why not ask the same ridiculous amount of money your competitors do? People seem to be paying for it. Their fault. If suppliers have sufficiently different products, they can make some more expensive, others cheaper; on average, everybody pays more. A high barrier to entry might help such practices. That doesn't mean I'm saying this is what is happen…
Isn't it difficult to win on tacit collusion if you can't find some kind of document or email to show they were deliberately taking advantage?
Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'll have to create a case that harm is taking place. Harm does not mean a PlayStation 5 is now $200 more expensive or that inflation exists. I would look at questions regarding what harm is created: Is it discriminatory? Are parts of society shutting down, and is that unreasonable? Are groups of people now unable to afford a living? Does it move the poverty line? Is that permanent? And how do you prove this is exc…
> You'll have to create a case that harm is taking place. Harm does not mean a PlayStation 5 is now $200 more expensive or that inflation exists. "Things cost more because of collusion" is always a harm. It doesn't matter if the product is maize or gold-plated haute couture, competitors are supposed to compete. The question is, what's the best way to tell the difference between tacit collusion and just normal supply…
I see the logic in your reply, thanks :)
Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s a nice short-term solution. How do you envision adding an infinitely-deep-pocketed state-sponsored supplier to the mix over the longer term?
What would the issue be, in the long term? I'm struggling to see a downside to more manufacturing capacity
If you want to realistically compete in a market with state-backed firms, you need state backing. Aerospace is a prime example.
Re: Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron Sued in US over Memory Price Fixing
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why not ask the same ridiculous amount of money your competitors do? People seem to be paying for it. Their fault. That's not how commodity markets work. This stuff is essentially sold at auction with the price set by supply and demand. The way they would fix the price is by constraining supply so that people have to outbid each other on a smaller amount of inventory. But that's not that hard to measure -- are they…
> but that they're not increasing it fast enough That also isn't illegal. A business can choose to artificially restrict supply if they want, there's no mandate that they must meet demand. It only crosses into illegal territory if multiple companies get together and secretly agree to cap production to keep prices high. Then it becomes collusion. It also becomes illegal if there's a monopoly power that is intentionall…
I mean, if they're dumb enough to try to game the system blatantly - and there are plenty of execs that are - they're dumb enough to write down their super secret criminal collusion plans in a group text, or a lengthy email chain. That level of stupidity among white collar criminals is shockingly common.
If there's no evidence to be found, that might be a good indicator that either A.) nothing illegal occured or B.) the senior leadership involved are competent, intelligent, and discrete
Given the number of companies involved, all it takes is one idiot, so if it's collusion, I expect we'll see evidence. If not, number go up.