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Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

reuters.com

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Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#151

Post by stackghost »

cryo32 wrote: post #88
irishcoffee wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8. I don’t even like LLMs and I’m against this mess. Imagine having regulations rolled out when we were 8 saying “you can’t use the internet!” And I was running my own websites by 10 years old. Let’s stop pretending this tech is as interesting as we wish it was. If we want to ban models in school, ban laptops/chromebooks with internet. I don’t see the difference at this po…

At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills. They need a lot longer to develop those in tandem. And also you may be above average there.

>At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills.

I have two kids and can confidently say eight year olds generally have good language skills, are capable of expressing themselves just fine, and have good comprehension of the parts of the world that they've been exposed to.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#152

Post by cryo32 »

garganzol wrote: post #142
cryo32 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did mathematics, and a fair bit of computer science on the side. This was nearly all on paper, without computers. And I'd go a week or two without a calculator sometimes, mostly employing it when I had a bad hangover. Do we really need to force technology into everything or are we just used to doing it so see it as necessary?

I did mathematics on paper, and informatics on computers. Some of my peers weren't so lucky, so they had to do informatics on paper only. Needless to say that the magnitude of progress we were getting in informatics had day and night difference, not in the favor of paper. AI is indeed dangerous. It gives super abilities when in the right hands. Some people don't like it as it creates competition for their mere existe…

It’s not really though is it?

It’s a fully centrally controlled technology that reduces your ability and makes you dependent on it to perform all daily and business functions with a huge environmental and economic impact. The economic impact is both the risks imposed by it failing and the risks imposed by it being successful.

It’s not Ludditism, it’s a good attitude to risk.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#153

Post by [deleted] »

conception wrote: post #138
Jimmc414 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway spent two decades digitizing classrooms and is now unwinding it. Seems a bit shortsighted and reactionary although I think they are trying to do the right thing. Plus "Generative AI" isn't one single thing. Using it to write your essay is cognitive offloading but using it as a Socratic tutor that gives immediate feedback and adapts to the student is closer to the thing education research says works. There's an…

I feel like two decades of data that it doesn’t work seems the opposite of shortsighted and reactionary.

[deleted]

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#154

Post by cryo32 »

stackghost wrote: post #151
cryo32 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills. They need a lot longer to develop those in tandem. And also you may be above average there.

>At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills. I have two kids and can confidently say eight year olds generally have good language skills, are capable of expressing themselves just fine, and have good comprehension of the parts of the world that they've been exposed to .

So they can conduct a nuanced debate then?

Mine couldn’t until they were much older. And I have more so perhaps that’s more statistically valid?

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#155

Post by nunez »

Spend a few minutes on the teacher subreddits: /r/teachers and /r/professors, specifically. AI has been a disaster for student outcomes and educator performance, more or less across the board. It should be banned in education, but there's no way to enforce that without increasing educator workload substantially (eliminating homework and re-working lesson plans around that; moving tests and projects back into the classroom; etc.)

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#157

Post by petercooper »

Nothing mentioned about the use of AI by elementary school teachers who may well be using it to generate sub-par worksheets or to rapidly, and potentially inaccurately, mark work.

Every special event flyer I get from my kids' school now seems to be AI generated. I'd be surprised if quizzes and worksheets don't head the same way.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#158

Post by willsmith72 »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #135
simonw wrote: post #56

> Pupils from first through seventh grade, aged 6 to 13, should as a general rule not be using AI, while those in lower secondary school, aged 14 to 16, can cautiously adopt tools under teachers' supervision, the government said. Sounds right to me. Kids under 13 need to learn to read, write and comprehend text. Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills. They can play with AI at home, and after 13 the…

Norway spent two decades digitizing classrooms and is now unwinding it. Seems a bit shortsighted and reactionary although I think they are trying to do the right thing. Plus "Generative AI" isn't one single thing. Using it to write your essay is cognitive offloading but using it as a Socratic tutor that gives immediate feedback and adapts to the student is closer to the thing education research says works. There's an…

It's not just Norway. Here in Australia many modern style schools were leaning hard into the digitized classroom era in the 2010s. Now slowly they're realizing their mistake

The problem is, a lot of the parents have bought into the digital parenting age too. They were told ipads etc were part of getting the best education for their kid. Now they're fighting hard on rolling it back (not least because they can't comprehend that it's a problem, that their child can't focus 5 minutes without a device)

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#160

Post by cheesecakegood »

solid_fuel wrote: post #67
sisve wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reduces completion time by 30% This is probably the big problem, or at least one of them.. If you use less time on learning, it will probably be harder to remember what you learned also. We need to spend some time to make it stick

The behavioral issue I see is that LLM users tend to immediately reach for an LLM and do their thinking in concert with it. This tempts users to approach problems by first feeding them into the LLM and then simply following the route the LLM lays out, which does improve task completion time for tasks that the LLM can simply regurgitate, but it stops the user from developing the actual critical thinking skills that sc…

It’s not just critical thinking skills, it’s also that there’s a big difference between recognition/following instructions, and recall/generating your own memories of an approach. But most students don’t recognize the difference. In other words, “following the route” is a big part of the problem - it doesn’t engage the brain the same and isn’t representative of real world use, and having something explained well doesn’t mean you can in turn explain it well yourself (the more revealing test of internalized true understanding)
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