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Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

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Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technical reality is: - that singel player games don't need a persistent online connection - that it is not that complicated if you develop your game with offline playability in mind from the beginning - multiplayer games can very well have an offline playable LAN mode (Age of Empires 2 is currently sold as "Definitive Edition" which does not work offline in LAN unless you connect to Xbox online services first) T…

> multiplayer games can very well have an offline playable LAN mode _some_ multiplayer games can, many can't, as they are using a cloud-based multiplayer backend that isn't easily replaceable (see other discussions in this thread). SKG makes no effort to address those differences.

I don't understand your argument. SKG specifically excludes:

- Existing games (they only aim to have regulation for newer game, as existing games may be locked into technical choices like a cloud based multiplayer backend that can't be replaced)

- Non live-service games (ergo games where you have a monthly subscription of some kind, which makes it obvious you're "renting" the game for a limited time).

Within these confines, it seems _very obvious_ to me that you can design just about any multiplayer game in a way that's compatible with SKG's desired regulations. In the vast majority of multiplayer games, you can:

- Provide a LAN multiplayer mode (most match-based FPS/strategy games can do that. Too many examples to cite.)

- Provide server binaries for self-hosted servers (Many survival games, or games with a persistent world, can do that. See v-rising for a recent example.)

- Provide a local multiplayer mode (split screen/couch coop style)

And if you don't want to go through any of that for [insert reason here], you can just make your game into a service requiring a monthly payment like WoW and you're no longer subject to the regulation!

Now, please give me an example of a game that doesn't fit within that framework if you want to continue this argument.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#152
post #144
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you buy instead of something else is putting someone on the street.

[flagged]

I love how you complain about the poor companies while companies are the only ones being heard. maybe take less of a moral superiority stance?

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#153
post #144
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you buy instead of something else is putting someone on the street.

[flagged]

> disgusting anti-democratic suggestion [...] denying them representation

I assume the idea isn't that developing a game means you don't get to vote as a citizen, but that the industry can't lobby for special access ("spent virtually all of their time with the gaming industry lobby groups").

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#154
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a much smaller set of European citizens, and yet they have a much larger access to lawmakers. So no, it's not idiotic.

[flagged]

> Would you be happy to put a person on the street so a thousand people get to continue playing league of legends in 2060?

Yes.

The balance is that everyone's free speech has already been SEVERELY restricted in order for the game industry to have a business model at all. This is about making sure that the rest of our society actually gets a remotely fair deal. Asking that companies can't just take away what they have sold is really below the bare minimum.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wrong, the commission did discuss with SKG, but the entire group had their head in the sand when reasonable people asked SKG to respect technical reality and resubmit a better, reality-focused proposal as SKG 2.0. They ban anyone not in their echo chamber.

The technical reality is: - that singel player games don't need a persistent online connection - that it is not that complicated if you develop your game with offline playability in mind from the beginning - multiplayer games can very well have an offline playable LAN mode (Age of Empires 2 is currently sold as "Definitive Edition" which does not work offline in LAN unless you connect to Xbox online services first) T…

> develop your game with offline playability in mind from the beginning

> players churn on their own without social features

you say one thing but the market votes the other way. Game developers are under pressure to turn a profit. If you want a game your way, develop them yourself! Thats how I started making games for myself. Projecting or pressuring others to do so yield no productive consequence.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#156
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say this shows how corrupted elites are. If the "democratic" entity spends all the time with lobbyists, and not the initiative which started the discussion, this speaks volumes.

[flagged]

> just the licensing issues are going to be a nightmare to solve

A lot of things are "impossible" until they become legally required, at which point it's just business as usual.

> and a lot of the time when servers start getting turned off the team that could do this work has been dissolved or are working on other things

Which is why we need a legal requirement - so that companies plan ahead for this.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#158
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say this shows how corrupted elites are. If the "democratic" entity spends all the time with lobbyists, and not the initiative which started the discussion, this speaks volumes.

[flagged]

>If they kept it to single player games and a push for games which aren’t multiplayer not to have a

but they are keeping to that. unfortunately

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I work in games, worked on some of the huge(40+ million players) online live-service games out there, and I have no idea what you're talking about here: " What isn’t realistic is stamping their feet and demanding that companies make it possible for people to run their own servers for live service games, just the licensing issues are going to be a nightmare to solve" Like....what licencing issues? After the game is "d…

> Like....what licencing issues? After the game is "dead" and the parent company doesn't want to support it anymore, we could easily release the source code or even just the executables for the servers.

I can't speak to the parent's stance, but more generally this would be referring to IP licensing and patent encumbrance. I've worked on a number of large systems where non-trivial parts of the codebase were licensed from external parties with distribution restrictions in place. Even the executable versions would be problematic as the contracts go to great lengths to lock it down to strictly company XYZ may modify and use the IP, but nothing else regardless of the form or means of distribution.

Releasing said systems as-is would require either relicensing to allow distribution (very costly and potentially impossible if the vendor declines), or replacing that functionality with a cleanroom implementation. Which is both costly, time consuming and difficult. You may also run into further issues there if the contract forbids cloning functionality, or even worse: if there is patent encumbrance you have to go back to the relicensing option.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#160
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GDPR is almost trivial to comply with if you’re not harvesting data willy-nilly. Likewise, the legal risk for small indie games here rounds to zero. Most such games will, at worst, lose access to online leaderboards if their developers shut them down.

> The GDPR is almost trivial to comply with if you’re not harvesting data willy-nilly. I buy a VPS. I apt install nginx. Is it okay that by default, opening http://IP/index.html logs the IP address to /etc/log/nginx/access.log? Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe yes but I need a privacy policy (for an empty index.html). Maybe I need to ask a lawyer (who usually errs on side of caution) because people have been arguing about…

This hinges on two misunderstandings:

- That data processing always requires consent. There are exactly six reasons for storing or processing data: consent, contract fulfillment, legal compliance, vital interests of a natural person, public interest/official authority, or legitimate interest. Collecting IP addresses can be a legitimate interest, but:

- The real interesting question is what you do with the IP addresses after they're stored in a file. Securing your server is a legitimate interest. Tracking your users is generally not. Having lawfully collected data is not a carte blanche to do anything you choose with it.

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