Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

timescolonist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 299 posts

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#151

Post by autoexec »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #69
hdgvhicv wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s nothing to do with money, that’s always the libertarian excuse, and HN laps it up far more than the rest of the word.

Have to sternly disagree: at least on the conservative side, it is thoroughly lapped up. Right wingers the world over constantly vote to fuck themselves and the rest of us over with this never ending whingeing about debt, spending, pork, what have you. On this particular issue it's even less surprising since the only thing perhaps a right winger wants to hear less about than government spending is climate change. The…

> Meanwhile the actual national debt soars, and under who? Yep, fucking right wingers again.

Exactly. If the people on the right cared at all about government spending they'd never vote republican again, which just shows us that they don't actually care about government spending. They don't seem to want to talk about the things they really do care about too loudly though.

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#152

Post by burkaman »

sejje wrote: post #108
pesus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it actually coming out of the military budget? I assumed we were just going to get taxed for it, or they'd pull it from some other places that actually needs the funds. Alternatively, they could just increase the military budget by 300 billion (or more).

My understanding was that the US green-lighted a 300-billion investment from neighboring countries to rebuild.

Nobody outside the administration knows what the US has greenlit, and a detailed peace agreement likely doesn't exist yet.

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#153

Post by groundzeros2015 »

arbitrary_name wrote: post #132
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applying even an ounce of argumentative empathy will make you more convincing and psychologically healthier.

it is extremely difficult to do in cases like this. again, why are we pulling the sensors? why not leave them in place and stop paying for maintenance? why not find alternate funding mechanisms? because we know who these people are, and what their motives are. they show us time and and time again. empathy is something to be used against us.

Well. Even if you want to attribute a bad motive that would give more clarity. Maybe the people involved in these projects have expressed disagreement with the admin, so they don’t want to pay them.

What’s so important about these particular sensors that any change in resourcing is a categorical evil?

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#154

Post by warkdarrior »

tetha wrote: post #138
square_usual wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically climate data, which can be used to argue for climate change action.

As the old joke went, the easiest way to not have detected covid cases in the country is to stop testing. Very simple, very effective.

Not an actual joke, this was Trump's idea during his first term.

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#155

Post by saalweachter »

epistasis wrote: post #68
waterthrowaway wrote: post #26

As a physical oceanographer, the destruction of these observing systems is horrific. It is hard to stress enough how intentionally OMB is trying to disassemble American science. The new (proposed) OMB guidelines prohibit international collaboration without pre approval for example. They also codify a political grant approval process. https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/05/the-office-of-manage... Additionally, OMB is…

The other thing they've done is make it possible to cancel any grant at any time if it goes against the politics of the current executive administration. Science has flourished in the US precisely because it could proceed without whimsical political picking and choosing, entire areas of science have flourished that would never have happened otherwise. That's not to say that politics is completely out of science, Cong…

A professor I worked for in college was a big fan of how the US funding was fragmented, with some coming from the NSF, some from NIH, Energy Ag, each branch of the military... if one department had a loon in charge, the others would keep things running smoothly.

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#156

Post by autoexec »

lastofthemojito wrote: post #45
vel0city wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not even about saving money. If they just wanted to save money they'd just stop paying attention to the data coming in, retask/lay off the people working on it, and let the buoys stay out there. A dumb idea to me, but at least that's consistent. Let other organizations decide to manage the buoys. While I'd prefer for the government to do it, it could be possible to have other groups fund such things. It would be…

It's also (according to some in Congress) an illegal action as Congress authorized and funded the project: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/lawmakers-fight-to-stop... But that just seems like par for the course for the current administration, whether it's tariffs or ballrooms or ocean sensors - do the illegal thing ASAP, let the courts argue for months or years, and maaaaaybe get a slap on the wrist sometime way…

> do the illegal thing ASAP, let the courts argue for months or years, and maaaaaybe get a slap on the wrist sometime way in the future.

don't forget that the courts have already decided that anything this president does is legally okay because he's immune from punishment for breaking any law as long as they decide the illegal activity was an "official act".

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#157

Post by jackyinger »

wnevets wrote: post #119
xg15 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone explain that "anti-science" crusade to me? This doesn't seem to have any effect than reduce America's standing in the world.

> reduce America's standing in the world. That is the goal.

A small price to pay to increase the standing of a select few. /s

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#158

Post by epistasis »

btown wrote: post #143
epistasis wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing they've done is make it possible to cancel any grant at any time if it goes against the politics of the current executive administration. Science has flourished in the US precisely because it could proceed without whimsical political picking and choosing, entire areas of science have flourished that would never have happened otherwise. That's not to say that politics is completely out of science, Cong…

And the non-cancellable nature of grants is not just a nice-to-have, it's absolutely critical for research with upfront capital costs (buying equipment, building labs, etc.) The very _fact_ that this is a policy is disrupting research, even if specific grants haven't been cancelled. Some universities are stepping in to backstop, but it's a powerful chilling effect.

Some of the specific grants that have been cancelled are shocking in the negative effect they will have on the ecosystem. Cutting off Sean Eddy, a giant in DNA analysis, just baffles the mind:

https://www.npr.org/2026/05/11/nx-s1-5807995/some-researcher...

There's not even any political angle to pursue here, it is just lighting knowledge on fire with no grander purpose.

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#159

Post by munificent »

xg15 wrote: post #73
waterthrowaway wrote: post #26

As a physical oceanographer, the destruction of these observing systems is horrific. It is hard to stress enough how intentionally OMB is trying to disassemble American science. The new (proposed) OMB guidelines prohibit international collaboration without pre approval for example. They also codify a political grant approval process. https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/05/the-office-of-manage... Additionally, OMB is…

Can anyone explain that "anti-science" crusade to me? This doesn't seem to have any effect than reduce America's standing in the world.

The primary goal of authoritarianism is consolidation of power among a small number of elites. Anything that can reduce that power is an enemy.

The essential weakness that the powerful elites have is that they are, by definition, outnumbered. So in order to consolidate and maintain power, they need to disturb any system that the masses can use to coordinate and form collective action.

(It's a kid's movie, but Hopper's speech in "A Bug's Life" captures this very well: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1hfo90u/hoppers_jus...)

Reality has a strong consensus-creating effect. We all live in the same material world, so simply by understanding it better and sharing that understanding, we will automatically trend towards having more common ground and more agreement.

That's a threat to elite power, so authoritarian governments have always been anti-science. They may pay it lip service, or attempt to harness it to their own ends, but they never want an entire populace that it well-educated and grounded in reality, because well-informed masses are harder to divide and conquer.

Post reply on HN