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Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

theguardian.com

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Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#151

Post by driverdan »

harmmonica wrote: post #22

Question for those in the know... See lots of press about balcony solar in Germany, and California recently introduced a bill to allow it (I'm guessing other states already allow it; not sure if the CA bill has a chance of becoming law). But how far are we from a more plug and play home solar system that becomes a primary energy source as opposed to a limited secondary source? And what are the issues with it actually…

A standard rooftop solar install with micro inverters is already pretty much plug and play. Wiring it up is the easy part.

Even a more complex system with large centralized inverters and battery backup can be about as plug and play as a desktop computer if you use an all-in-one inverter/charger/controller.

The challenge is scale. You can't take 10kW of solar and plug it into an outlet. It requires more hardware and wiring than that.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#152

Post by SoftTalker »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #112
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For whatever reason, there’s a strong motivation for people to dismiss the gigantic global effort to transition the energy system away from fossil fuels, and claim that all that effort isn’t really doing anything. Because renewable energy is Communism, or something. But seriously: $$$$. The Fossil Fuel industry, before it finally dies, will make big Tobacco look downright merciful. The owners of these companies and…

Putting the planet aside for a moment, the unnecessary death and illness they've inflicted on the human race will be staggering.

I would disagree, I think that plentiful affordable energy has been a huge benefit to the human race. Transportation, refrigeration, manufacturing, simply having electricity in the home, most everything we take for granted in terms of our current standard of living traces back to abundant and cheap energy.

But there is no reason to hang on to the old, dirty technology if there are now better alternatives. And if the economics work, the market will follow, as it seems to be doing. You can't fake lower costs.

Nuclear should have replaced coal decades ago but the economics didn't actually work, even though the environmental benefit would have been real.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#153

Post by ViewTrick1002 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #4

This is more from a lot of coal power plants being converted to gas over the past 20 years than solar overtaking the outputs of those power plants. Coal output shrinking, solar output rising, the lines have crossed. Coal is unpopular in all but a few areas where coal mining is still a part of the local econonmy. I used to work near a coal plant and every day I'd go out to my car and it would have little black particl…

Solar has also overtaken fossil gas.

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/clean-energy/renewables...

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#154

Post by boznz »

thelastgallon wrote: post #38
dnautics wrote: post #26

The US currently is at per capita GHG emissions approximately at the the same level as it was in 1910. https://ourworldindata.org/profile/co2/united-states Despite not being in the paris treaty, the us needs only a 10-12% reduction to meet the paris accord requirements on schedule (43% decrease by 2030).

US consumers and businesses buy almost all their stuff from China. China's massive footprint of Coal should be added to US emissions.

Not just the US, a lot of developed countries have outsourced the problem to China (or other countries) to look good on paper, and tanked their local manufacturing as a by-product. It will be interesting how history records this moment.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#156

Post by SoftTalker »

rtkwe wrote: post #36
Retric wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total electricity produced by coal + gas is down over the last 20 years. Total electricity production is up, the difference is from wind and solar. This administration swapped to actively suppressing Wind and Solar via tariffs etc, and yet the trends continued because the underlying economic reality heavily favors battery backed solar.

I think that's part of what's notable about this. The administration hasn't been able to reverse the trend despite putting a massive thumb on the scale against projects like offshore wind and tariffs on solar panel imports. There's probably a delay in the effects though since projects started before they took office are probably starting to thin out and finish up. We'd have to look into the permitting of new projects…

Like you can't avoid gravity, you can't avoid economic reality. Not in the long term anyway.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#157

Post by ben_w »

dnautics wrote: post #95
ben_w wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aye, but that data is up to 2024, here's an update: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-emissions-ha...

"flat or falling" let's be honest. The amount of "fall" in that graph is basically in the noise. It's been flat.

Sure. Difficult to say much from so few datapoints alone.

On the other hand, the apparent cause suggests the trend will continue.

On the other other hand, perhaps China will suddenly decide to build 100 GW of data centers meaning they ramp all the existing coal plants up to 100% load.

I'm mostly hopeful, but not absolutely so.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#158

Post by boznz »

Torkel wrote: post #94

The growth of solar is astounding. I dug into data a while back and tried to do some visualizations of it, mainly for my own understanding: https://torkeldanielsson.se/solar-energy-forecasts/ Solar is already by far our cheapest source of energy. As solar expands, the learning rate means solar will be even cheaper. We should expect solar to be the single largest source of energy on earth by 2035.

A shame electricity is not the whole picture when it comes to energy. The resurgence in EV sales off the back of high gas prices is awesome, but almost 100% of bulk transport costs still rely on oil. Also, unlike EV's which can be plugged in at home for most of their needs, bulk-transport will require considerable new infrastructure to make the transition. Still a way to go.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#159

Post by bryanlarsen »

epistasis wrote: post #124
SoftTalker wrote: post #4

This is more from a lot of coal power plants being converted to gas over the past 20 years than solar overtaking the outputs of those power plants. Coal output shrinking, solar output rising, the lines have crossed. Coal is unpopular in all but a few areas where coal mining is still a part of the local econonmy. I used to work near a coal plant and every day I'd go out to my car and it would have little black particl…

No, this is actually solar's output increasing. Natural gas's share of electricity generation has been falling for five years straight: https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/gas-share-in-global...

That's a link to a global chart. The OP is talking about the US. It's not surprising that countries that have to import natural gas are moving away from it and countries with plentiful local suppliew are doubling down on it.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#160

Post by daedrdev »

ssl-3 wrote: post #133
Paradigma11 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you have that week or 3 when you need all the infrastructure.`

Sure. Shit happens. The system we have now is imperfect. The system we will have in 10 or 20 or 100 years surely will be imperfect, as well. We must not let perfect be the enemy of good: If we do, then we'll never get anything done at all.

In power grids the system must be able to handle peak loads for weeks at a time. Either it will shed loads (aka shut off electricity) or things will explode. A black start cannot be allowed to happen as it would be catastrophic
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