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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#151

Post by kaufmae »

contagiousflow wrote: post #142
kuboble wrote: post #132

Being in Switzerland it looks to me like this is a really tough referendum. Both sides have very good arguments and from the side it looks like either way the Switzerland has to give up some asoects of its high quality of life. If the initiative succeeds, Switzerland will get a large hit from the cancelation of a lot of bilateral agreements with the EU. If the population exceeds 10M then the current rail and road inf…

Can you explain how adding frequency to the train network will not work to compensate higher ridership?

Frequency is basically 15 minutes almost all over the country already

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#152

Post by phoronixrly »

ericmay wrote: post #118
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> execute a Swexit It wouldn’t be full Chexit. Just renegotiating and then rejecting the Schengen chapter. It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause.

> It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause. These kinds of morally-superior, we'll show them, type of attitudes and suggestions are precisely why so many folks have come to be anti-EU. Nevermind the actual other real day-to-day issues with the organization. I'm sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why s…

You are mistaken. I am pro-Scotland independence and EU admission but anti Catalonia independence. Simply because the former will expand and strengthen the EU and the latter will divide and weaken it, especially since it's supported by Russia.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#153

Post by joe_mamba »

skywhopper wrote: post #127
greenavocado wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how crazy it is to call a population cap an act of "suicide."

At the very least it’s an infringement of human rights.

Yes, because in the human rights bill it says that everyone in the world has the right to go live in Switzerland.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#154

Post by FabCH »

criddell wrote: post #135
FabCH wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I _am_ Swiss. You missed the part where we _voluntarily_ chose to enter into a contract with the EU that does in fact beholden us to EU laws. We can go back on that contract, but breaking your word is something that people remember for a reason.

Does the contract contain a section on breaking the agreement?

Yes.

And that clause famously includes the breaking of all other contracts.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#155

Post by PowerElectronix »

transcriptase wrote: post #22
amunozo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way worse than Brexit, as Switzerland is much smaller, landlocked and had no colonies or anything like that. This would be a suicide for the country. Just populism to mobilize the electorate.

Makes far more sense than the “population must increase forever” pyramid scheme the rest of the West is running. Check out Canada for a look at what happens when you try to juice GDP via population growth at the expense of literally everything else.

No country is running a "population must increase forever". You only hear that when the public pensions are discussed because they are unsustainable. The argument is not " population must increase", it's more "human labor is the most critical resource and we must get as much as we can".

You can fear the results of runaway immigration in the short term, like cultural clashes, organized crime and brown people in your neighborhood. But you can't deny the results on the long term when you allow talent to go to your country and end up with more nobel laureates of New Zealand origin than New Zealand.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#156

Post by atemerev »

jrflo wrote: post #3

So this is essentially a way to reduce immigration to the country? And if they get close to the cap they will "need to take measures, particularly in the areas of asylum and family reunification." Would be curious to learn more about why this is being proposed.

This is a way to enable deportations and curb permit prolongations, to delay reaching the 10m cap (which will create really bad consequences).

As an immigrant in Switzerland, I am quite WORRIED.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#157

Post by kaufmae »

philipallstar wrote: post #128
arjie wrote: post #31

This is such a fascinating referendum. The population is at 9.1m, and at 9.5m it appears they'll stall asylum and family reunification, and at 10m they'll execute a Swexit - Switzerland isn't in the EU but it allows freedom of movement to EU nationals. Boy it is interesting to see what's going on in the world right now. There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up…

> There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up in an era of European unity and American primacy European unity works well in a world of mostly-stable populations. Having mass migrations from large, relatively empty countries, to pretty full ones, is going to make the full ones increasingly expensive to make housing for, to power, and to water.

most of the immigrants are highly educated professionals, big tech, pharma and meds. it‘s not the „empty“.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#158

Post by Schiendelman »

bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

It's not just the state - it's your neighbors pushing the same building restrictions as the rest of the developed world, where people say "I don't want another neighbor next to me", which results in too few apartments for even the existing people's children...

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#159

Post by mrazomor »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #131
mrazomor wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about free movement, but "free trade"/joint market. Having rich countries support its poor neighbors is an ingenious solution to improving your quality of life. You impose your rules, regulations and monetary policy, they get capital for internal improvements. If there's no huge waste or theft (which sadly exists), you end up with wide, strong and stable continent-level middle class. Which is great goal, as…

> It's not about free movement, but "free trade"/joint market This is entirely about free movement and immigration.

I wasn't precise enough, my bad. I was referring to the comment about which says that by Switzerland restricting the moves from EU, loses the free movement to EU. My comment says that this is less of an issue -- the real issue comes from the market restrictions that EU will install against Switzerland.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#160

Post by azan_ »

skywhopper wrote: post #127
greenavocado wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how crazy it is to call a population cap an act of "suicide."

At the very least it’s an infringement of human rights.

Is being able to move to Switzerland really an universal human right?
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