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New Referendum Would Flip Brexit Result 10 Years On, Poll Finds

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Re: New Referendum Would Flip Brexit Result 10 Years On, Poll Finds

#151

Post by gib444 »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #148
gib444 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London, white British %, census data 2001: 59% 2011: 44% 2021: 36% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London

london is one place in the whole of the uk. might be the big stonking capital city, but it is definitely not representative of the whole of the UK. late edit copypasta stat from sibling reply with actual national census data instead of cherry picking from the obvious culturally diverse capital city > "White" remained the largest high-level ethnic group in England and Wales; 81.7% (48.7 million) of usual residents ide…

Birmingham (2nd largest city):

1991: 78%

2001: 65%

2011: 57%

2021: 48%

Manchester (3rd largest city):

2001: 74%

2011: 59%

2021: 48%

I can keep going until you get tired

Re: New Referendum Would Flip Brexit Result 10 Years On, Poll Finds

#152

Post by munksbeer »

f33d5173 wrote: post #100
ceejayoz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A change of this magnitude probably should've been like an American constitutional amendment; a stricter requirement than 50%+1 vote.

What percentage of the vote was required to join the EU? The EU effectively constitutes a relinquishment of sovereignty, but that's not how it was sold to citizens, they were told that they could leave at any time.

> the EU effectively constitutes a relinquishment of sovereignty

Agreed, it is pooling sovereignty. The UK already does that with a union of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Pooling sovereignty is often regarded as a benefit on the whole.

Re: New Referendum Would Flip Brexit Result 10 Years On, Poll Finds

#153

Post by nephihaha »

henearkr wrote: post #62
nephihaha wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is fairly homogenous with the obvious exception of the Ainu and certain castes. Much more so than Persia/Iran, Russia, Mexico or India. When Japan had a large empire, that was not so much the case, because they ruled over very different peoples.

That's not what most recent archaeological discoveries tell. Quite distinct groups of humans mixed in ancient Japan, as different and distant at that time as the groups that are mixed in modern times in Peru or India. Some groups were related to Autronesians, others to Yakuts, yet other groups to Hans, etc. If I remember correctly, at least three distinct groups are proven to have cohabited and arrived at different t…

I am not talking about prehistory here. The culture of the Japanese "Home Islands" in the Middle Ages consisted of two main groups: Ainu/Edo and the Japonic peoples who spoke related dialects. The first group was treated abysmally and dwindled. There were differences based on environment, e.g. the people in Tohuku had to deal with the cold and those in the south had subtropical climates and more outside interaction. The first major cultural difference (other than Ainu) came in with Christianity in the south and caused a civil war.

Japan is a heck of a lot more homogenous than Taiwan, the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia and most of continental south east Asia. In fact, for that matter, Japan was more homogenous in 1707 than the British Isles, Spain, France, Italy or Germany.

Re: New Referendum Would Flip Brexit Result 10 Years On, Poll Finds

#154

Post by munksbeer »

bojan wrote: post #117
nephihaha wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The taboo is the notion that the European Union needs to be reformed (no pun intended!). I was a Remainer, and do not regret that, but I hoped the EU would clean house. (Yes, the UK should do as well btw. Scotland should be independent. The House of Lords, Whitehall and Royal Family need a major overhaul.)

As someone who's pro-EU, I'd also really like to see major reforms within the organization. While it contributes enormously to the welfare of the continent, the EU is by design dysfunctional and toothless. I'm a pessimist, there is so much money behind the forces that want to see the EU fall apart because small individual countries are easier to buy off, I don't see how we can defend against that. We'll only know wha…

> As someone who's pro-EU, I'd also really like to see major reforms within the organization.

What would your reformed EU look like?

Re: New Referendum Would Flip Brexit Result 10 Years On, Poll Finds

#155

Post by dijksterhuis »

gib444 wrote: post #151
dijksterhuis wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

london is one place in the whole of the uk. might be the big stonking capital city, but it is definitely not representative of the whole of the UK. late edit copypasta stat from sibling reply with actual national census data instead of cherry picking from the obvious culturally diverse capital city > "White" remained the largest high-level ethnic group in England and Wales; 81.7% (48.7 million) of usual residents ide…

Birmingham (2nd largest city): 1991: 78% 2001: 65% 2011: 57% 2021: 48% Manchester (3rd largest city): 2001: 74% 2011: 59% 2021: 48% I can keep going until you get tired

what would be appreciated is

1. sources for your numbers rather than just random numbers thrown out on the internet

2. not using specific city data, i.e. look at national census-type level data. because if you look at the largest cities in the UK you're going to see effects/changes which are local to those cities, and not nationally applicable. manc/brum are still not representative of the whole country.

You're still cherry picking your statistics, which is how to lie with stats 101 (i did that for a job for 3+ years, i know all the wily tricks dude).

Feel free to keep going, but you'll just be cherry picking more and more un-representative samples until you start using national level census-type data.

Re: New Referendum Would Flip Brexit Result 10 Years On, Poll Finds

#158

Post by elzbardico »

gambiting wrote: post #108
Beijinger wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% agree. They need to be much harsher and will lead to a regime change soon. But not in Russia, but in Germany (AfD), UK (Farage) and France (LePen), as predicted by Emmanuell Todd. ;-)

...how can you wish for such a thing?

[flagged]

Re: New Referendum Would Flip Brexit Result 10 Years On, Poll Finds

#160

Post by gib444 »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #155
gib444 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birmingham (2nd largest city): 1991: 78% 2001: 65% 2011: 57% 2021: 48% Manchester (3rd largest city): 2001: 74% 2011: 59% 2021: 48% I can keep going until you get tired

what would be appreciated is 1. sources for your numbers rather than just random numbers thrown out on the internet 2. not using specific city data, i.e. look at national census-type level data. because if you look at the largest cities in the UK you're going to see effects/changes which are local to those cities, and not nationally applicable. manc/brum are still not representative of the whole country. You're still…

I already cited, the data is from the same source: the census.

You're not engaging in good faith at all.

"I want to zoom out until it matches my world view / provide more sources" is bad faith 101. Did you think I'm so naive?

You not willing to discuss the 3 largest cities is absolutely absurd and bad faith. It's akin to sticking your head in the sand.

Zoomed-out stats is how to lie with stats 101. The same happens in crime arguments: eg 'oh it doesn't matter if crime in your local area is rising because UK-wide it's declining'. It's an attempt to cover up issues and it's very obvious

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