American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn • Hacker News Board

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#151

Post by saratogacx » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:19 AM UTC

VonGuard wrote: post #19

datadrivenangel wrote: post #3

Is there any graceful way to let the pressure out of the system and begin rebuilding trust and stability or is the only way out to immanentize the eschaton?

Legislation and court rulings have shown that shareholders get everything they want, ever. They want Southwest to stop checking 2 free bags? It happens. Etc. Ad Nauseum. Somehow, we need legislation that says companies are beholden first to their employees, then to their customers, THEN to shareholders. I don't know how to do that. Co-ops are the only real answer maybe?

Costco's code of ethics makes this really simple, it is too bad it, or a variation thereof, isn't more commonly observed.

In order of overriding priority

1. Obey the Law 2. Support our members 3. Support our employees 4. Support our suppliers 5. If we do the above, we'll reward shareholders

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#152

Post by iancmceachern » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:19 AM UTC

hparadiz wrote: post #111

maxdo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both companies created in the previous century and running on old fuel of past success

Yea that's why the only three orbital grade reusable boosters are American. Lmao.

But our bridges and infrastructure are crumbling

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#153

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:19 AM UTC

sevenzero wrote: post #119

WalterBright wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read my responses here.

I did, which made me come to this conclusion. You seem to think value is created by extracting money from a product, while value actually is created by the work it takes to create said product. How much money one does extract has nothing to do with a products value. In your Tailor Swift example earlier, the value was created by her recording the music, not by her selling tours.

> value is created by extracting money from a product

Nope. It is created by creating something valuable that other people want to pay for.

> value actually is created by the work it takes to create said product

That's the Labor Theory of Value, which is a Marxist tenet and has been thoroughly discredited. For example, a CEO can decide to take Bunker Hill, or take Sausage Hill. If he picks the more profitable hill, he created more money, with the same amount of labor.

> the value was created by her recording the music, not by her selling tours.

Nope. It was selling tickets to her concerts that made her a billionaire, not her music. That's why she did the concerts.

BTW, why do you think that some concerts charge more for tickets than other concerts? For the same amount of labor setting up the concert?

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#154

Post by Grum9 » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:20 AM UTC

randycupertino wrote: post #10

I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately.

[dead]

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#155

Post by satvikpendem » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:20 AM UTC

sevenzero wrote: post #148

satvikpendem wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value is absolutely in how much you can sell it. Otherwise every startup that subscribes to the "build it and they will come" philosophy would've been successful, which is obviously not the case and is a common problem that YC specifically tells founders to look out for. There is no value in building anything if you cannot convince others it is valuable. The labor theory of value is not valid.

[flagged]

An obviously flaggable comment will get flagged. If you can't say anything other than that then I'm not sure why you'd reply. And anyway, if you can't understand why digging ditches all day is not valuable (after all, look at all the hard work they're doing!) then I'm not sure what to tell you. It's a shame, 4 month old account but still succumbs to comments like this, not sure how HN moderation can fix that.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#156

Post by wvenable » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:22 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #72

wvenable wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does creating wealth hurt others? Creating wealth doesn't. Extracting wealth does. We have long switched from a creating economy to an extracting economy.

[flagged]

All of us. Fees, commercial and residential rents, products that cost the same but are smaller. None of this generating new wealth.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#157

Post by crossbody » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:22 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #142

crossbody wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if Norway managed to pull it off, we can just ignore all the countless counter examples

Another way is to learn from what Norway is doing right and see what can be replicated. Norway is not a sole example though, just a prominent one.

Can we? Do we even know the counterfactual? Perhaps Norway would have been 2x richer (incl. their poorest people) if they implemented ultra aggressive libertarian policies.

The best we can do is learn from natural expriments like Finland and Estonia being about as rich before ww2, then by 90s the gap got massive since one was forced adopt more redistributive policies. Same with North / South Korea. Here we have at least some hope of extracting causality

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#158

Post by illiac786 » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:22 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #124

stopping wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the top 10% of people suddenly had their wealth double overnight, it would have absolutely disastrous effects for the lower 90% of people. Prices for scarce goods (e.g. housing) would increase dramatically. The price increase dampens the overall demand for housing since a large fraction of the 90% are now priced out. The wealthy homeowners have an incentive to maintain that scarcity, and freely use their resources…

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Wealth inequality leads to lots and lots of power concentrated in a few people. That’s the problem.

It’s a money aristocratic system, and that’s really bad for anyone not belonging to the aristocracy.

And if they continue on this path, we might see heads roll.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#159

Post by illiac786 » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:23 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #16

randycupertino wrote: post #10

I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately.

[flagged]

Money is being created. Land and other resources are not, hence they end up being concentrated in the hands of the super rich.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#160

Post by satvikpendem » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:24 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #153

sevenzero wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did, which made me come to this conclusion. You seem to think value is created by extracting money from a product, while value actually is created by the work it takes to create said product. How much money one does extract has nothing to do with a products value. In your Tailor Swift example earlier, the value was created by her recording the music, not by her selling tours.

> value is created by extracting money from a product Nope. It is created by creating something valuable that other people want to pay for. > value actually is created by the work it takes to create said product That's the Labor Theory of Value, which is a Marxist tenet and has been thoroughly discredited. For example, a CEO can decide to take Bunker Hill, or take Sausage Hill. If he picks the more profitable hill, h…

Indeed, I don't understand how anyone can seriously believe in the LTV anymore, as if someone digging holes should be as valuable in the economy, all else equal, as someone building something valuable. But that's what LTV proponents would have you believe apparently.