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Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

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Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#151
Somewhat of a clickbait headline. He used "Citizens" in contrast to police, in a discussion about body cameras:

>Another thing: body cameras, we completely redesigned body cameras. [...] Remember this terrible case in Memphis where the 5 police officers basically beat to death another citizen in Memphis, well that can't happen because it would be on TV at headquarters, everyone would see it, your body cams would be transmitting that. The police would be on their best behavior, because we're constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on, citizens would be on their best behavior, because we're constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on.

I'm not a fan of surveillance, but this article seems weird. The entire article, including the headline, consisting of a single quote, and without adding any context. A charitable interpretation would be that "citizens would be on their best behavior with police, because they know police can check the footage." I'm not necessarily advocating for charitable interpretations, but when you don't even provide the full sentence of the quote, you are not even allowing the reader to attempt to draw their own conclusion.

https://www.oracle.com/events/financial-analyst-meeting-2024... 1:10:03

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#152

Larry should be a good example and publicize all his communication. Pretty sure he is on his best behavior all the time.

Even if he did, the Epstein class already provided that they will get away with everything so what would be the point.

They both own private islands. I'd like to see surveillance of Lanai, you know, for security.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#153
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 99% certain it's AI. Lots of short sentences. Very short paragraphs. It's not X, it's Y.

"shape"

Yeah, such words are a giveaway.

Another:

It is not “this simplified, kindergarten-level explanation”, it is “this explicit, thoughtful one”

In this case I suspect the poster used GPT (looks like OpenAI) to generate the initial response and then edited it.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#154
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not endorsing what China is doing in terms of surveillance by any means, but their argument would be that every nation not subservient to the US got overthrown by CIA backed forces the moment they opened up. The surveillance tech that is much more likely to be deployed in the US and that few are talking about is Israeli tech used to spy on and suppress the self determination of Palestinians. Especially given the…

> Especially given the recently proposed fusing of US/Israeli military tech. This has been a thing for a while to be fair. Not sure if you're just mentioning of some new project instead? We've given and gotten back tech to and from Israel.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/israel-us-military - this goes beyond previous technology sharing

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#155
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is kinda what is going on in China.

Except China has a well defined culture and millenia of experience with this and has learned how to have an autocratic society that still somewhat serves its people (until it doesn't). The US has been captured by a foreign power that has no interest in the welfare of the people so the expectation is that an autocratic society would be much worse in the US.

> The US has been captured by a foreign power that has no interest in the welfare of the people

Huh?

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#156
There is another stance which I feel is often overlooked in these discussions, and it is the absolutist 100% pro-“record all the things” realm, which is maybe not as obvious as it may seem at first - but is equally important to protect.

There shouldn’t be a secret surveillance apparatus.

But there should also be a massive human archive of recordings, accessible to all, forever.

Like, I legitimately think beyond the voyeur/exhibition equation, there is a service which governments could be providing to their citizens.

If the NSA is going to copy everything, give me access to my data. I can operate as a responsible citizen of the state, if I have it giving me a metric lifetime of storage.

There are many, many applications where it would actually be fine to have an efficient, well-financed organization, taking care of my personal, private data - properly, standardly, safely - like all the other services it provides citizenry. Standard encryption which allows me to broker my data with third parties, etc.

I’d be a lot less resistant to the surveillance state - of any nature, not just governmental - if it would at least give me access to my data.

Besides which, there are many great reasons to just always be recording.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#157
post #69

What really gets to me is how big tech isn't even pretending anymore to serve society. They clearly feel superior to the rest of us and entitled to rule.

Bryan Cantrill warns, "Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn. You stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' -- the lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, the lawnmower can't hate you. Don'…

While that's pithy, I think it's also incorrect, because it implies that Oracle / Ellison is controllable by us, in the same way a tool / lawnmower is. That's absolutely not true. It has its own motivations that are best-case neutral to our goals.

It might be better to think of ourselves as individual fish in a school of fishes, and Oracle is the boat with a mile long dragnet. It doesn't care about the individual fish; it's not worth it's time to consider us individually. It's thinking in terms of tonnage.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#158

I think the really dangerous part here is not just “surveillance bad”. It is that AI removes the labour cost that used to limit surveillance. CCTV was already a problem, but someone still had to watch it, search it, interpret it, escalate it. AI changes that. It makes surveillance searchable, scalable and administratively useful. The shift is from “you may be observed” to “your behaviour can be continuously machine-i…

That is copied straight from an LLM. Do folks make no attempt at humanizing their LLM outputs? Is that even worth doing? I personally wish you guys would - the moment I realize I'm reading an LLM-generated comment, my interest immediately wanes and I stop reading.

Hate that I'm biting on this, but this isn't constructive, whereas AI generated or not, the comment above is. It is the top one, it is succinct, and it articulates the point clearly.

You seem to lament AI and given the context of that comment, the author presumably does too. The world is moving faster and faster towards AI first so kicking an screaming "That's AI" will not help. AI generated noise sucks, nut this is not it. We're moving closer and closer to a self-censored, milquetoast internet. Don't bring down a person for putting themselves out there, instead build on their case or build one of your own if you disagree. Shitting on well articulated points only pushes them further out of common discourse. We are all strangers on the internet and owe each other nothing, including this feedback, so do with it what you will.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#159
post #143

I think the really dangerous part here is not just “surveillance bad”. It is that AI removes the labour cost that used to limit surveillance. CCTV was already a problem, but someone still had to watch it, search it, interpret it, escalate it. AI changes that. It makes surveillance searchable, scalable and administratively useful. The shift is from “you may be observed” to “your behaviour can be continuously machine-i…

> Police bodycams should make police accountable. on an often under reported note, police body cams have led to an increase in police brutality as opposed to a reduction. https://prismreports.org/2024/07/16/complex-troubling-histor... excellent book on the topic: https://thenewpress.org/books/copaganda/

"In the U.S., the number of civilians whom police have killed annually has only increased each year since the widespread adoption of body camera equipment,"

That is a near textbook case of abusing statistics. Those things are completely independent variables. Perhaps "civilians" (as opposed to what, military?) killed by police increased because crime increased. Or population increased. Or laws changed. Or bullets changed.

Why would we expect widespread adoption of bodycams to decrease the number of criminals shot and killed by police? That starts with the spurious assumption that the police are randomly shooting and killing citizens in droves without cause and bodycams would put a stop to it. As it turns out, this isn't happening, so bodycams have no influence on the variable.

There's no need to read the rest of that article if the authors are trying to secretly sell such a pejorative opinion.

I invite you to go watch a couple hundred bodycam vids on YouTube. It may change your perspective on what police deal with. What I see consistently, regardless of department, is police bending over backwards and using all kinds of non-lethal force, to the point of risking their own lives, before using lethal force. There are well-publicized exceptions but in the vast majority of cases, the officers are facing someone using lethal force against them.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#160

Larry should be a good example and publicize all his communication. Pretty sure he is on his best behavior all the time.

To be fair, when he was stopped by the police, he was very polite and compliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj-8UqcSJDY

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