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Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

bbc.com

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Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#151

Post by platevoltage »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #145
monocasa wrote: post #4

Basically why my car is so old it doesn't even have a CAN bus. Roslin: I heard you're one of those people. You're actually afraid of computers. Adama: No, there are many computers on this ship. But they're not networked. Roslin: A computerized network would simply make it faster and easier for the teachers to be able to teach- Adama: Let me explain something to you. Many good men and women lost their lives aboard thi…

Same. Want to update the firmware in the computer? Sure but you'll need to unscrew the driver's seat, unscrew the desktop PC sized ECU, unscrew its four pencil-thick battery connections, unplug its 27 connectors, unscrew the 50 screws in three slightly different sizes holding the top cover on, remove the heatsinks, unscrew the eight screws holding the motherboard in, and desolder both the 144-pin 68HCxxx chips that d…

Surely there's a parallel EPROM somewhere in there you can bake with a UV light and program.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#152

Post by aembleton »

Cider9986 wrote: post #86
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #26

Has anyone proposed a solution that balances privacy and consumers’ desires for connectivity features? EDIT: Sorry, I meant a legal requirement.

Rivian has given a cool solution, apparently because of consumer demand, or idk why they did. Rivian lets you disable all data collection: ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47967786 ) I don't think consumers care about their cars being connected. Personally, I would just rather use my phone for whatever connected features you would want in a car.

Setting the climate control remotely is handy, and it needs its own modem to do that.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#153

Post by monocasa »

platevoltage wrote: post #150
monocasa wrote: post #4

Basically why my car is so old it doesn't even have a CAN bus. Roslin: I heard you're one of those people. You're actually afraid of computers. Adama: No, there are many computers on this ship. But they're not networked. Roslin: A computerized network would simply make it faster and easier for the teachers to be able to teach- Adama: Let me explain something to you. Many good men and women lost their lives aboard thi…

I never understood this. They're networked? So what? Don't connect it to other ships, or the Baltarnet or whatever they call it. Is the idea that if a Cylon gets on the ship, they can access the CIC from the thermostat in the bathroom? Did I miss something? Did I watch it wrong?

> Is the idea that if a Cylon gets on the ship, they can access the CIC from the thermostat in the bathroom?

Yeah, it was intended to limit lateral movement from compromised systems.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#154

Post by monocasa »

platevoltage wrote: post #151
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. Want to update the firmware in the computer? Sure but you'll need to unscrew the driver's seat, unscrew the desktop PC sized ECU, unscrew its four pencil-thick battery connections, unplug its 27 connectors, unscrew the 50 screws in three slightly different sizes holding the top cover on, remove the heatsinks, unscrew the eight screws holding the motherboard in, and desolder both the 144-pin 68HCxxx chips that d…

Surely there's a parallel EPROM somewhere in there you can bake with a UV light and program.

The 68HCxxx's typically have on chip ROMs.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#155

Post by jjav »

Frieren wrote: post #108
sfRattan wrote: post #12

With cars, networked computers are encroaching on privacy from two sides: the computers inside the car sharing sensor data and the computers outside the car sharing camera data from known points on the road. Older cars may not have cellular data, and some new cars (e.g. the Slate electric car) may be specifically designed without cellular connections or with easily removable chips, but so much can still be inferred f…

> The solution must be legislation that limits all of: data collected Let's finish the sentence there. Being spied by corporations 24/7 while we game, watch entertainment, drive, talk with friends, work... it's fucked up. We live in a hell of our own creation and only new legislation and regulations can get us out of here.

> We live in a hell of our own creation

Well not "our" creation since only a few oligarchs control most of the companies that engage in this.

> and only new legislation and regulations can get us out of here.

The same oligarchs control nearly all the legislators, so no way out.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#156

Post by Ravus »

bboreham wrote: post #142
Ravus wrote: post #135

I notice a different, amazing angle that doesn't really stand out in current comments. This is a BBC article. UK public broadcasting, paid with taxpayer money and aggressively collected - one of the first things I got when moving to a new home in the UK was letters from tv licensing. Yet it's all "In the United States". "Federal Law and state law". The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that, this Mary…

I get the following banner: > This website is produced by BBC Global News Ltd, a commercial company that is part of BBC Studios, owned by the BBC (and just the BBC). No money from the licence fee was used to create this website.

Thank you. I was missing that info because I do not get that banner, currently surfing that site from the EU without any login.

Visiting the same URL on the .co.uk version gives me a multi-article scroller with different layout and links (including a "What is BBC Future?"), but no trace of that banner. Guessing that you're in the UK from your comment history, my best guess is that they decide whether to serve that banner via geofencing.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#157

Post by jjav »

laughing_man wrote: post #133
vegetablepotpie wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the legislation that exists requires surveillance tech be installed on new vehicles. https://www.gadgetreview.com/federal-surveillance-tech-becom...

Yep, which is why I'll never buy another car without an ashtray.

That is the only solution unless something radically changes.

For me, I will never own a car with any kind of screen on the dash.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#158

Post by jjav »

Gigachad wrote: post #33
plagiarist wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a HN user recently on a related post explaining to everyone that they don't need privacy because they personally aren't harmed and a murderer was caught by one of these cameras. It turns out protesters don't need privacy, either, because of various reasons. Same for women seeking adequate healthcare, I'm sure. Or LGBT people attempting to exist. Sorry, I am strawmanning a little. Actually, we'll simply have…

The end state is something like China, where petty street level crime is essentially solved. You can leave your bike unlocked because if anyone stole it the police would find them and return it since they can track the thief on a network of cameras. But like you say, many things which have been crimes were based on unethical laws. It's easy to two sides this issue, less crime would on a whole be a good thing but some…

> You can leave your bike unlocked because if anyone stole it the police would find them and return it since they can track the thief on a network of cameras.

In the US it is actually even worse than that.

The government and large corporations (basically the same people owning it all) will spy on you 24x7 for anything that they dislike you doing.

But if your bike (car, etc) is stolen right in front of many cameras providing video evidence, police will not do anything about it.

I know first hand people who have crystal clear video evidence of theft, gave it to the police, and they just don't care to do anything about it.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#160

Post by mrweasel »

nbernard wrote: post #114
isodev wrote: post #25

It was totally predictable, unfortunately. At least in the EU it’s quite illegal and even if a car maker slips something in, GDPR is always there so one can request a copy and have it deleted. Wish the regulation was even stricter though.

At the same time, EU mandates that new cars must have a system able to call help if it detects a crash with the driver not responding... And I suspect most manufacturers will argue that telemetry data are not PIIs until taken to court, so since they have to put a cellular connection anyway, why not use it?

When Cariad had a data leak, they were really quick to point out that no payment information had been leaked. That really shows how little they understand about PII. Screw the payment information, I'll just cancelled that card and get any abused funds refunded by my bank, that's not neither my problem nor my concern.

For some strange reason most companies do not understand the inherent danger of having e.g. location data and behavioural patterns leaked. That's much much worse than you stupid debit card number.

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