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Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

politico.eu

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Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#151

Post by znnajdla »

carlosjobim wrote: post #51

How come the Dutch people aren't offering more than the US investors to purchase this company, since this seems to be so close at heart?

This kind of attitude is exactly why American-style capitalism is not wanted. As if money is the only thing that matters? Maybe there aren’t enough Dutch investors with deep enough pockets to match the American offer because the US prints the worlds reserve currency with no fiscal balance whatsoever. American investors are playing with monopoly money propped up by an army to bully anyone who doesn’t take it.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#152

Post by stoltzmann »

carlosjobim wrote: post #128
vrganj wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're just establishing that what one can pay is in fact not the only measure, disproving your universal assertion by counterexample. Regarding the specific case, they probably have the money. But they don't need it. Such is the beauty of regulatory power, vested in a democracy.

The common expression goes: "Put your money where your mouth is" I want to see if the Dutch will do that or not. To see the full beauty of regulatory power, you also have to be blind to the long term consequences of decisions. For example, are the best Dutch entrepreneurs government-aligned to the extent that they will create their startup or business in the Netherlands, knowing that they won't be able to sell shares…

>The result is that European hi-tech entrepreneurs create their businesses in a friendlier environment, which is usually the USA.

The inverse of that is that this creates a huge market in the EU, where you don't have to be the best in class and the most capitalistic - you can be good enough and still make a good buck serving local clients.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#153

Post by overfeed »

crote wrote: post #75
frevib wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AFAIK Solvinity can't access the data. Solvinity is the hoster. It can fully access the stack.

It's even more complicated: the datacenter and the servers are owned and operated by the government, and the DigiD app itself is owned and operated by government-owned Logius. From what I have been able to deduce, Solvinity is contracted for some kind of sysadmin services - so basically Kubernetes babysitting?

Are you suggesting sysadmin access isn't sufficient to access data?

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#154

Post by BigTTYGothGF »

hvb2 wrote: post #24
monegator wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure there was some negotiations which i'm sure the current administration would honour There should be grave consequences alone for the fact that the goverment acted against the parliament

> which i'm sure the current administration would honour It would've been the same administration as the one doing the negotiations, so I would assume yes. > There should be grave consequences alone for the fact that the goverment acted against the parliament In general I think there's a pretty good understanding between the legislative branch and the executive branch. The Netherlands has always had coalitions. Also,…

> executive branch

I didn't think the Netherlands had one of those.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#155

Post by tmsbrg »

mechazawa wrote: post #71
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because too few IT capable people are willing to work under the government's pay scales; in most cases going private / corporate earns more. So most Dutch IT projects end up with private companies, which also means that, in the case of DigID and the secure / official messaging platform, the hosting party can charge exorbitant rates. Did you know it costs 25 cents to send a message via the Berichtenbox? So when the go…

There are plenty of people who are willing to work for the government and the pay is pretty decent. But their stack is often Microsoft based and their IT is located in Apeldoorn. Who in their right mind would want to travel all the way to Apeldoorn. A good example of internal development in the government is the police. They have internal development teams.

Apeldoorn? I don't know any government offices there. Most of it seems to concentrate in The Hague, with some agencies spread through the country.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#156

Post by Muromec »

usrnm wrote: post #113
mechazawa wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of people who are willing to work for the government and the pay is pretty decent. But their stack is often Microsoft based and their IT is located in Apeldoorn. Who in their right mind would want to travel all the way to Apeldoorn. A good example of internal development in the government is the police. They have internal development teams.

Most people managing stuff running in a datacenter don't live near that datacenter, it really doesn't matter where it's located. Also, the Netherlands is so tiny that crossing half of the country would still fall under "reasonable commute" in many places

It's about 3 hours to cross the country (Groningen to Rotterdam) on a train and that's assuming you live by the train station and your work is also near the station too, which is mostly not true. I know some people who commute for 1 hour and a half, but they aren't in the office really often.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#157

Post by Muromec »

mechazawa wrote: post #71
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because too few IT capable people are willing to work under the government's pay scales; in most cases going private / corporate earns more. So most Dutch IT projects end up with private companies, which also means that, in the case of DigID and the secure / official messaging platform, the hosting party can charge exorbitant rates. Did you know it costs 25 cents to send a message via the Berichtenbox? So when the go…

There are plenty of people who are willing to work for the government and the pay is pretty decent. But their stack is often Microsoft based and their IT is located in Apeldoorn. Who in their right mind would want to travel all the way to Apeldoorn. A good example of internal development in the government is the police. They have internal development teams.

Their (Logius) vacancy site says Den Haag, not Apeldoorn on the vacancy for Java developer (another reason to not work there -- java).

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#158

Post by llm_nerd »

petcat wrote: post #9

Good for them, but I doubt this will be the last we hear about this especially with the current US government. ASML was only permitted to acquire US company Cymer (the actually valuable EUV light source technology) back in 2013 under a strict technology sharing and export control agreement. The Netherlands blocking a US acquisition due to technology control concerns is sure to ruffle some feathers in Washington.

>the actually valuable EUV light source technology

ASML brought Cymer in house because it couldn't make the tech they needed and they needed to dump resources and engineers on the project of a supplier to make what they needed actually happen. Cymber could only accomplish 10W EUV lights, while ASML needed 250W sources, so they bought the company to actually execute on what they needed. And there were other sources that ASML could have flipped to.

They literally bought it because it failed to do what they needed. Somehow loads of Americans, in that fun American exceptionalism way, want to rewrite the world where really ASML is just some magical US tech in a trench coat, because everything somehow owes its existence to Americans.

>especially with the current US government

The US government has forced every American company to cease work with any judge or employee of the ICC, all in defence of America's boss Israel. This alone should see every American company ousted from every foreign nation. The idea of giving an American domiciled firm control over domestic infrastructure tech is insane (like, treasonous level), and anyone pushing this needs to be fully investigated. Similarly, the fact that the UK keeps implementing garbage from Palantir is clear evidence that the country is utterly busted and needs a massive civil service overhaul.

This is all quite aside from the various tantrums, grotesque levels of corruption, and openly threatening allies.

I'm sure it will "ruffle some features", but it turns out the US blew its load already. Absolutely no one cares what that idiocracy's cabal of pedos, halfwits and self-dealing criminals throw a tantrum about anymore. At this point the US should be punted from NATO, every base closed, and everyone should just nuke up.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#159

Post by hvb2 »

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #154
hvb2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which i'm sure the current administration would honour It would've been the same administration as the one doing the negotiations, so I would assume yes. > There should be grave consequences alone for the fact that the goverment acted against the parliament In general I think there's a pretty good understanding between the legislative branch and the executive branch. The Netherlands has always had coalitions. Also,…

> executive branch I didn't think the Netherlands had one of those.

'het kabinet' or 'de regering' is the executive branch in NL. You don't need a president to have an executive branch.

Eerste/tweede kamer. Legislative, make the laws Ministers/staatssecretarissen, executive, implement policy Hoge Raad etc, legislative.

Look up trias politica

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#160

Post by hvb2 »

mcv wrote: post #50
hvb2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which i'm sure the current administration would honour It would've been the same administration as the one doing the negotiations, so I would assume yes. > There should be grave consequences alone for the fact that the goverment acted against the parliament In general I think there's a pretty good understanding between the legislative branch and the executive branch. The Netherlands has always had coalitions. Also,…

There are certainly countries that have it worse, but Netherland has some weird political games being played sometimes.

The voters don't always deal the cards favorably for the coalition system. Compared to a 2 or 3 party system, I think I still prefer the coalitions though as it forces them to negotiate
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