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The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

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Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#151

Post by yankee_dodge »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #122
yankee_dodge wrote: post #109

The scariest part of this well-reasoned piece is the amount of trans fat in beef tallow. Trans fat is unbelievably destructive. A review in the New England Journal of Medicine 20 years ago [0] sent that message well. I doubt there has been any significant revision to the understanding of the physiology. [0] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra054035

> the amount of trans fat in beef tallow Natural tallow doesn’t contain a lot of trans fat. The only way to consume trans fats in large quantities is through hydrogenated fats.

True -- trans fat is 5-10% of beef fat [1] BUT "a lot" is not the standard when it comes to trans fat. The NEJM article makes the point that trans fat is damaging even in small quantities, like a single gram. It was a great day when trans fat was required to be listed on the Nutrition Facts Label. It spurred snack manufacturers to get it (mostly) out of their products.

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6356151/

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#152

Post by anon84873628 »

erelong wrote: post #35

It seems like carnivores exist and have done things like lost weight and have good medical tests to see the impact of the diet in relation to their health, hence there has been a push to experiment with more animal products in the diet over seed oils / veggies at times

Yes, people putting effort into a "carnivore diet" can be healthy. The problem raised by the article is people continuing to follow their same eating patterns (namely, ultra-processed foods) while the fats have been swapped out.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#153

Post by leereeves »

nielsbot wrote: post #146
morgengold wrote: post #136

Just kicking out seed oils replacing them with animal fat while still having a shitty diet is for sure of no help. But what I would like to know: how bad is having a lot of beef steak in the context of a mostly unprocessed food context? Like basically berries, nuts, eggs, vegetables, fruits + beef.

FTA: > There’s something else worth knowing about beef tallow that isn’t making it into the wellness content: It contains ruminant trans fats. > The administration that declared it is “ending the war on saturated fat” has found a cooking fat that delivers more of the exact compounds most associated with cardiovascular mortality. MAHA is road paved with artery-clogging cholesterol, and they’re calling it a health revo…

Some recent research says that natural trans fats are not as dangerous as the industrial kind.

https://www.reading.ac.uk/news/2026/Research-News/Natural-tr...

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.nutres.2026.03.009

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#154

Post by lithocarpus »

analog31 wrote: post #131
aliasxneo wrote: post #70

Seed oils tend to cause severe inflammation in my body like most other ultra-processed foods. This is more than conjecture, due to existing health conditions, I keep a very strict diet with a food journal. I was excluding them long before RFK Jr. came around with the MAHA stuff. Yet another thing thats been politicized I guess.

I keep reading about "inflammation" and think about things like swollen joints, bruises, etc. It must mean something else. What would I notice in my body if the oils that I consume are causing severe inflammation?

There are tons of possible symptoms because systemic inflammation including from dietary causes basically damages the entire body. But here's a list of some common symptoms from one source:

persistent pain, chronic fatigue or insomnia, joint stiffness, skin problems, elevated blood markers (such as C-reactive protein), gastrointestinal issues (constipation, diarrhoea, acid reflux), depression, anxiety and mood disorders, unintended weight gain or loss, frequent colds or flu.

https://stories.uq.edu.au/research/2023/9-signs-you-have-inf...

For myself, when I eat processed food I mostly feel fatigue and low energy and gastrointestinal pain. But it's been extremely rare for me to eat these things in the last 10 years.

Most of the US population are systemically inflamed including from diet basically all the time, and most of the US population are suffering from several of the above symptoms chronically. (Not to claim that it's definitely or only because of food, but I'd bet it's a big part of it.)

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#155

Post by jandrewrogers »

lithocarpus wrote: post #124
sinuhe69 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I don't know exactly how long people have been eating oil from olive, flax seed, sesame, coconut or palm nut, but I believe not under 6000–7000 years. But yeah, not the stuff we eat today.

Yes, I wasn't talking about unrefined olive, flax, sesame, or coconut. I don't think most people concerned about "seed oils" are concerned about those. It's the refined soybean oil, canola/rapeseed oil, cottonseed oil, grapeseed oil, sunflower seed oil, corn oil, safflower oil, peanut oil - these are the modern refined oils I'm referring to that were never eaten until very recently. I'd be dubious of refined / ultra…

It isn’t clear at all how refining oil makes it materially “worse” in terms of health than the unrefined equivalent. That claim lacks both evidence and a mechanism of action.

Every argument I’ve seen demonstrates a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of the chemistry. These same bad chemistry takes are repeated everywhere by influencers. This isn’t unique to the oil discussions, dietary health is rife with vibe-based chemistry takes that are obviously unscientific.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#156

Post by dukeyukey »

perrygeo wrote: post #117
bob1029 wrote: post #71

Seed oils probably aren't ideal, but I also worry how much this narrative is distracting from the bigger problem of sugar consumption. Humans only have so much attention and discipline. It would be a shame to focus all that energy on a "no seed oil" diet only to wind up even more unhealthy. How many products with seed oil also contain some form of added sugar? I don't seem to have much issue with moderating the occas…

Yep. If there was one single thing that literally every person should do for their health, that is to greatly reduce or completely eliminate sugar. The evidence is overwhelming. The evidence against seed oils is not quite as convincing. I see seed oils as a low quality food to be avoided - goes rancid too easily, requires chemical processing, etc. - but it's not strictly poison. These oils are in virtually every indu…

Added sugar? I really don't think giving up all fruits and vegetables is a good idea.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#157

Post by anon84873628 »

elchief wrote: post #29

"eat less ultra-processed food" well, how do you think Canola Oil is made exactly? it's cracked, cooked, pressed, washed in hexane and acid, neutralized with caustic soda, bleached, deodorized on what planet is that not ultra processed? so, i should avoid ultra-processed food, except oils that are ultra-processed? whereas tallow, is...cut from meat i'm not suggesting you should only eat tallow, I'm just saying it's n…

Cows eating grain in concentrated feedlots and then made available in separate pieces all year round at the local grocery store... is also a modern industrial invention.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#158

Post by zzzeek »

debo_ wrote: post #82
zzzeek wrote: post #28

I'd recommend https://myticker.com/ which was shared here some time ago. I followed the advice on this site and actually got very bad news. But the good news would be, that I'm on a strict medication regimen now and maybe I'll live to see my son's graduation. RFK is killing people. it's what he does.

I hope your interventions help, and that you live a long and healthy life.

thanks, me too!

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#159

Post by UncleMeat »

nekzn wrote: post #63
atollk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ultra-processed" does not mean "many steps in the process of creating it". Although I assume many people are somewhat misusing the term by now, it originally comes from the "Nova" system, where part of the current definition of ultra-processed is: Industrially manufactured food products made up of several ingredients (formulations) including sugar, oils, fats and salt (generally in combination and in higher amounts…

Hexane, acid, caustic soda, bleach, and deodorisers have no or rare culinary use.

The "bleach" in the bleaching process for foods is not the bleach you buy to clean your bathtub.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#160

Post by beej71 »

djmips wrote: post #106
beej71 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I take my 100%-handwritten prose and hand it to a detector, it tells me it's 30% AI. Those detectors are crap and they're training people to also be crap at it. I'm not changing how I write just to sound "less AI".

That's something an AI would say.

:-D
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