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Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

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Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#151

Post by [deleted] »

rootusrootus wrote: post #44
Forgeties79 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do advanced maneuvers without getting so close to another plane in some weird attempt at simulating a scenario that will never happen. Did some cursory searches/math and it looks like about 1-2% of aerial shows in the US have a fatality (1-2 deaths annually with about 2000 shows on average over the last 20 years). If those numbers are correct (and they may very well not be as it’s a mix of LLM and Google quic…

> You can do advanced maneuvers without getting so close to another plane in some weird attempt at simulating a scenario that will never happen. That is likely true. However, it is a heck of a demonstration of pilot skill. The Blue Angels somewhat regularly post in-cockpit views of their airshow practice and it is wild how tight a formation they fly; I really recommend seeking out some of those videos, it is totally…

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Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#152

Post by Gud »

defrost wrote: post #147
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two expensive holes in the ground that do not support your supposition.

Only if there's a significant difference in risk between training flight and air show flight. Otherwise there's always a near constant ever present risk of uncontrolled unintended landings with expensive repair and replacement costs.

That’s a pretty big “only”.

Airplanes normally don’t fly so close.

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#153

Post by flomo »

kube-system wrote: post #60
operatingthetan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. They are for recruitment and showing other nations what is on hand in case they want to mess with them. >insightful cynicism. So in response you select the most naive take?

Even the airshows that the military flies at are often primarily civilian shows. The military clearly has recruiting and power demonstration goals but airshows in general exist outside of those goals. The majority of the aviators at these shows are civilian hobbyists.

Sure, but the Air Force bills all this kinda stuff to Recruiting (having worked in an adjacent area. I support a voluntary military.)

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#155

Post by tedggh »

avalys wrote: post #3

These are pretty expensive and specialized electronic warfare planes that are identical to a regular F18 in aerodynamic performance. Sucks to lose two of them for an airshow display. Isn’t that what the Blue Angels are for?

If the plan was to demo the Growlers team then calling the Blue Angels makes no sense, that’s a completely different team on completely different aircraft. You can still demo them with reduced risk like avoiding flying close profile.

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#156

Post by ExoticPearTree »

dboreham wrote: post #89
jcgrillo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Internet is to be believed they're not actually more expensive than an F/A-18, and as far as military aircraft go.. not the most expensive. But a ~$150M accident is nothing to sneeze at.

Perhaps the internet price excludes the EW payload? Seems like a plane with a load of electronics gear and transmitters/antennas would cost more than the same plane sans that stuff?

I do not know the specifics, but I think most of the EW gear sits on pods attached to the pilons, not inside the actual plane. The only difference that I know of compared to a regular F18 is that it requires two crew members to operate.

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#157

Post by rogerrogerr »

tintor wrote: post #143

Four people ejected. What is the purpose of the second person in such plane, at the air show?

They're 2-crew airplanes. If you're used to flying with a backseater, it's probably safer to continue doing that.

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#158

Post by cortesoft »

Gud wrote: post #152
defrost wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if there's a significant difference in risk between training flight and air show flight. Otherwise there's always a near constant ever present risk of uncontrolled unintended landings with expensive repair and replacement costs.

That’s a pretty big “only”. Airplanes normally don’t fly so close.

Fighter jets in training probably do?

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#159

Post by ExoticPearTree »

mlyle wrote: post #103
NikolaNovak wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a LOT of air shows where military airplanes are a small or zero component. I'm totally in agreement that armed forces are there for reasons you described. But an "air show" is a massive and sometimes separate Venn diagram. There are air shows where main thing is thousands of private airplanes coming from across the country to be together and meet up and have fun. Put it other way, if armed forces decided it…

Yah.. the roaring sound and precision of military aerial display teams can't be denied, and are an awesome experience. But it's something you see someone doing in a Pitts or Extra or maybe even a Citabria or 150 that makes you question your understanding of the laws of physics :D

It is not the same. Having a jet do a low pass is something that you will remember for a long time. Or having it go vertical with full after burners, especially close to sunset where you can see it better.

The other factor is showing how good you are: sure, you can do formation flying in an Extra 300 or a C150, but doing it in a fighter jet show precission and skill, because it will not forgive you as easy as a slower moving plane.

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#160

Post by jandrewrogers »

ak217 wrote: post #95

What are Growlers doing performing aerobatic maneuvers at air shows? They have tens of millions in specialized extra equipment on board. Seems like a poor use of taxpayer money. Send regular F-18s, not the rare expensive ones that look the same.

Much of that specialized equipment is mounted on the hard points where you would otherwise attach ordnance. It is easily removable. In the videos I don’t see much evidence of that equipment being installed. This is consistent with what you would do for an airshow.

The US military plans to lose about 25 airframes per year due to various mishaps. They operate well over 10,000 airframes and produce far more new airframes each year than they lose. The optimal loss rate is not zero.

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