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Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

williamangel.net

151–160 of 322 posts

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nothing about the current data center craze looks efficient.

Whether you think building data centers or not is a good idea it's inarguable that the per-token efficiency (power, hardware, etc) is FAR higher in a data center. That's literally what it's designed for.

im talking per value. look at the efgiency of chinese open source models; then look at SOTA sucking gigawatts, then the proposals.

America is basically proposing AI using the equivalent bloatware of Windows 11.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But once all that is done you still own a Mac in one case, and you don’t in the other, correct?

Yea this; it’s the same reason why mortgaging is cheaper than renting

This is far from a universal truth: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/upshot/buy-rent-cal...

Real estate is only a clearly good investment if you ignore opportunity cost.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll keep my data local over a $.02/mtok difference.

It’s more than just data locality. OpenRouter is faster, no? I have an M4 pro, and anything but the smallest dumbest models are unusably slow for interactive use. I personally haven’t yet found a good use case for offline/non-interactive LLM work locally.

And continuing the argument of "more than just...", if you stopped inferencing on your Mac you still have a generally nice computer. The difference between rent vs buy.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#154

This isn't a good analysis, and it's because it keeps rounding everything up. He rounds up the cost of electricity by 10%. He has a range of power use, takes the high end (which is 2x the low end) and multiplies it by the inflated electricity cost. But then they talk about using a newly purchased Mac to do the inference, running at full capacity, 24/7. Why would you do that? Apple silicon is fast but the author point…

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Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of FUD and notion that hardware depreciates in this manner is widely held. I blame Michael Burry of the Big Short who is perpetuating these lies to the investor community today. There's a bunch of retro hardware which should make people pause and realize they're stupid to assume hardware slows down on average even 5% 20 years later (it's probably closer to 2% and I'm being generous). HVAC/power delivery an…

There are tons of things that can start failing on hardware. I don't realistically expect some LLM usage to materially reduce the lifespan of the laptop, but running it 24/7 for AI usage makes me think that I'm more likely to get 3 years out of the device instead of 10.

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Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#156
post #138

> "run a model like Gemma 4 31b, which is almost anthropic sonnet levels of performance" I wish people stopped deluding themselves — I regularly try (and benchmark for my purposes) local models and they are NOWHERE near the huge models like Sonnet or Opus. Nowhere. Yes, you can sometimes get plausibly-looking output for simple tasks, but for anything even remotely requiring thinking there is simply no comparison. Loc…

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Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#159
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're on a treadmill where stopping is death, and the treadmill costs $10bn a year to keep running. You’re literally describing all companies. Google takes about $270bn/year to run. If they stopped spending that they’d die pretty darn quick. It’s also a description of working - unless you’d built up significant savings, if you stopped working you’re also going to die.

> You’re literally describing all companies. No, not quite. It really comes down to opex vs capex and the depreciation schedule for your investment. Software development is typically categorized as capex, on a 3-5 year depreciation schedule. You assume the software you write today will be generating value for you that long. If a big, expensive model training project only gives you value for a year or less, that is no…

No, the IRS made that change a while back as part of the TCJA but that’s been reverted in the OBBBA. If you build something and never touch it, sure that should probably be capex you have to depreciate. But if you’re investing continuously in it over time, I don’t see how it’s anything other than opex - there’s nothing being depreciated because you’re constantly improving it. Automobile manufacturers don’t have to count their labor force as capex. Indeed I can’t think of any other industry where labor is capex.

But believing that the financials of a project are governed solely by how IRS rules force you to account for headcount is kind of silly.

> If a big, expensive model training project only gives you value for a year or less, that is not like most companies.

The model itself that gets built? Sure (although clearly the timelines are getting longer). However the important bit here is the research that got done along the way and the infrastructure built to make that model building process cheaper, better etc. all of that stuff sticks around but because it’s hard to appreciate externally you discount it to 0 when it’s literally what they actually spent the money on.

But none of that even matters. Google had 270B in opex and their capex has grown from 50B in 2024 to 90B in 2025 and is projected to grow to ~175B for 2026. But even if you discount the “AI” treadmill, you’re still looking at many tens of billions in capex that if they stopped they’d die.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because there are a lot of people writing articles about the benefits of running local models. I think it's fair to say that there are daily threads on HN singing the praises or local inference. I also see people buying new hardware where the main trigger is ability to run local models.

But the people who want to do local inference are putting some amount of value on privacy that’s not captured by the raw monetary value so just comparing the price is somewhat beside the point, it’s also true that, if you have eg a Mac and you use that as your main computing device then you would have spent money on it anyway, so you can’t even really compare its value to spend on something that’s not general purpose…

That's a lot of assumptions. I think there are also people buying new hardware specifically for this purpose, and their motivation to do it is thinking it will be cheaper in the long run. Privacy is not necessarily the motivation.
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