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Airport Security Is Killing Us

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151–160 of 262 posts

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BDL just keeps getting worse. It's already hundreds of dollars less expensive (during the holidays) and takes less time to fly into say Newark and take an Amtrak to Connecticut.

Do you mean "more" expensive?

I read it as « It's faster and cheaper to use (other airport plus Amtrak) instead of flying in to BDL. »

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#152
post #53
post #38

A quibble, because this whole fucking disgusting thing fills me with limitless rage: TSA agents do not perform 'pat-downs'. Pat-downs are very quick checks to see if any obvious weapons are being concealed on someone's body. Police will do these before putting a suspect into a police vehicle, for instance. TSA employees do what are called 'custody searches', designed to find contraband material on detainees. These ar…

No they're not. The Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld an exemption for searches in the context of airport security under the doctrine of administrative searches, where the state's legitimate interest overrides the cost (to individuals) of the search, and where no one person is singled out by the searches. Your argument doesn't even follow logically, as all the 4th Amendment requires is that searches be "reasonable"…

I would stipulate (using statistics) that the threat of harm in airports and on airplanes is very very low. Therefore, the searches ARE unreasonable.

What "threat" are we defending ourselves against?

I also stipulate that removal of the security protocols would NOT lead to more hijackings or random murders on aircraft. It's specifically because of the fact that certain places are "weapon free" zones that they are targeted by criminal malfeasance. Knowing that most if not all of your opponents are unarmed is a HUGE tactical advantage.

The problem is that everyone believes they have a right to be defended by someone else. You of course don't have to defend yourself, but your defense is truly your own business.

This is not to say that acts of offense or even attempts at offense shouldn't be punished. We do have a right to justice, and simply put, that is all.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#153
In fact, extremist Islamic terrorism [since 2001] resulted in just 200 to 400 deaths worldwide outside the war zones of Afghanistan and Iraq—the same number, Mueller noted in a 2011 report (PDF), as die in bathtubs in the U.S. alone each year.

Indeed. But the problem is how to get the votes in Congress to support a significant downsizing of the TSA. Were the President to do so unilaterally (which he may well have the ability to do), he'd be accused of disregarding Americans' safety and chances are that a good number of those accusations would come from inside Congress since there's still plenty of political capital to be made from opposing him.

As I've said before, there are three factors that support reducing the TSA's budget (and powers) in the coming yeas: the withdrawal from Aghanistan, budget cutting due to deficit management, and economic growth meaning that there will be jobs available for the laid-off TSA employees. These point to a downsizing of the TSA during 2015-16, after the 2014 midterm elections.

According to one estimate of direct and indirect costs borne by the U.S. as a result of 9/11, the New York Times suggested the attacks themselves caused $55 billion in “toll and physical damage,” while the economic impact was $123 billion. But costs related to increased homeland security and counterterrorism spending, as well as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, totaled $3,105 billion.

This, on the other hand, is extremely disingenuous. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been major, major expenses (and major drivers of our national debt, since we didn't raise any new revenue to pay for them). Mentioning them last, as if they were some minor component of the TSA budget, reverses the order of significance.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#154
post #38

A quibble, because this whole fucking disgusting thing fills me with limitless rage: TSA agents do not perform 'pat-downs'. Pat-downs are very quick checks to see if any obvious weapons are being concealed on someone's body. Police will do these before putting a suspect into a police vehicle, for instance. TSA employees do what are called 'custody searches', designed to find contraband material on detainees. These ar…

The ironic thing is that we lose the right to be free from searches, because we lost the right to defend ourselves. It is often the case where the Second Amendment is absent, so goes the Fourth.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#155
post #108

The sad fact is, I think TSA type security is hear to stay, and won't lighten up very much, regardless of the facts that question its efficacy. Why? Picture this. Someone (likely a politician) crusades hard to have the TSA dismantled, and is successful. No matter how much better the system that replaces it is, there is always a chance that someone slips through and takes down a plane, and 300+ people are killed. In t…

Yea. It's one of those ideological dead ends that are hard to back out of. Just like the War on Drugs, Tough on Crime, Privatize and let the Free Market Decide, War on Terror, etc.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#156
post #38

A quibble, because this whole fucking disgusting thing fills me with limitless rage: TSA agents do not perform 'pat-downs'. Pat-downs are very quick checks to see if any obvious weapons are being concealed on someone's body. Police will do these before putting a suspect into a police vehicle, for instance. TSA employees do what are called 'custody searches', designed to find contraband material on detainees. These ar…

Hear hear. The current day pat down is nothing of the sort. I like to stand post security and loudly call them what they are: gropes.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#157
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing I said was an argument, I was only stating my opinion. An opinion, it seems, that is not uncommon. http://blogs.reuters.com/bernddebusmann/2011/10/28/america-w... > Please leave your preconceptions at the door when having a serious discussion. Upon arriving in America in 2003, I had no preconceptions. I'm speaking from my experiences living and working in the country.

I can tell you that your experience will be vastly different depending on where you live and work. That's why it's hard to make meaningful statements about America as a whole, such as "Americans think they are number 1" or "You're more likely to get murdered if you move to America". Nobody throws a dart on a map and moves to America the country, they move to California or Virgina or Wisconsin. Your supporting evidenc…

>I can tell you that your experience will be vastly different depending on where you live and work.

I'm not sure how this makes the US different from the countries it's being compared to. They all have more and less dangerous regions. There are more and less dangerous regions within a block's walk from me, but the average over that area gives me a general basis of comparison with other areas.

I always feel that there's a racial subtext to this kind of defense of US statistics (which I often hear in terms of education, crime, and health outcomes.) It is, basically, that the parts of the US that the average Scandinavian or Japanese citizen would ever be in have comparable rates of terribleness to their own countries - just ignore the massive portion of the US behind the curtain.

e.g. I am more likely to be killed when moving to an average Chicago from an average Finland. Since Chicago is segregated, however, very few white people would ever see an average Chicago - so an average Chicago can't be a meaningful comparison.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#158
post #2

I opt-out of the x-ray scanner every single time, and so should you. It really doesn't take much longer to go through the process. Show up 3 minutes earlier if you have to. You're rushing to the gate, for what? To sit there longer? Boarding with the crowds is stressful anyways. The most relaxed way to board is at the very end -- there's no more line, I just walk right into the plane, most people are seated, and just…

In the UK, you can't opt out. Also, you're subjected quite often to a full grope (if you set off the metal detector) before they select people to go through the X-ray scanners!

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#159
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can not walk up to the security checkpoint at the airport. To see why this matters, imagine that the TSA could, as soon you bought a ticket, search you in your home. The police can actually do that, if they have a warrant.

If this really were the doctrine under which these searches were instituted, wouldn't there have to be a situation where the search procedures are fixed at the point where you bought your ticket, and they can't spring surprises on you by changing procedures between purchase and travel? Maybe I'm being unreasonable, but if the idea is that you implicitly consent when you sign up, then it seems like they should not the…

That's not the doctrine the searches fall under.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#160

Hear. Hear. I want to be able to walk into an airport with my shoes on and walk calmly to an arrival gate to greet arriving passengers there. And I want to be able to carry a Swiss Army knife in an airline carry-on bag. And I want the terrorists to be attacked relentlessly where they live, so that they have to hide in caves and ride on goats, while Americans and other people in developed countries get to lead civiliz…

Why do you assume that all terrorists live in places with caves and goats? The CIRA, RIRA, Irrintzi, and many other such organizations are still active. Assuming the big risk of terrorism is Islamic extremism (and originating from the Middle East) is a naïve, American-centric view: plenty of us live our lives more threatened by local separatist groups than by Islamic extremism. The big risk in the UK today is still I…

As an Irish person, I disagree. The IRA had a very specific territorial objective: ending British rule in Northern Ireland. The Taliban are not articulating an alternative approach to Afghan nationalism, they're religious radicals that think it's OK to assassinate 12 year old girls, stone unmarried lovers to death, and behead their political opponents. When the freedoms you're fighting for consist exclusively of oppressing other people, then your cause is bankrupt.

Pull out a map of the region. The main reason the taliban got to be so powerful is that Pakistan's ISI (intelligence agency) considered a Taliban-run Afghanistan strategically useful in the ongoing struggle between Pakistan and India over the territory of Jammu and Kashmir.

PS don't assume that because I'm Irish I supported the IRA's objective - quite the opposite, in fact.

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