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Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

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Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't outcompete include murder? We are a very tribal species, and the history is full of genocides and mass murders, so from a very uneducated viewpoint, this sounds reasonable. If not that, is it that we depleted the resources they depended on?

Great question. When people say outcompete it can certainly include violence but we’re talking about populations spread over continents over thousands of years. Factors like technology, fertility, adaptability, etc. are more what people mean when they said outcompete.

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Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#154

Here's something random about "Neanderthal". The word comes from the Neander Valley (Neander-thal) where their fossils were originally discovered. It was named after Joachim Neander, a 17th-century German pastor. Neander is a latinization of his family name Neumann, meaning "new man". So not only did we discover a new type of man in a valley named new man, but the computers that are used for artificial intelligence (…

> Here's something random about "Neanderthal"

If you'll permit me to throw in some fun (and arguably related) trivia:

Niander Wallace is the main antagonist in Blade Runner 2049. He's a genius industrialist that manufacturers high-tech human "replicants" for profit, and in pursuit of his ultimate goal to "storm Eden and retake her". An yet the thing that holds him back is his inability to get his replicants to procreate.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#155
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the reverse. If you have easy access to an assistant or search engine it means that the need for recall goes down.

This was Socrates' own warning about writing over 2000 years ago

Socrates was partly right. I am deeply indebted to written notes on just about everything. Pre-literate societies often had excellent memories, and have to rely on them for survival not just culture bearing. The Polynesians had excellent navigation skills without writing. Desert societies can remember oases and routes etc sometimes relying on song to memorise them.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#156
post #2

This pairs nicely with the recent publications around Neanderthal cognitive abilities and how there likely similar to ours ( https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/04/neanderthal-brains-m... ).

The real reason why now, every two weeks, you are bombarded with articles about how great Neanderthals were... - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2UUsisXvwoM

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common misconception, more likely outcompeted

You really think we would have let a competing species exist?

Biological classifications are one gigantic mess. There are multiple ways to define what qualifies as a "species". One of them is procreation and viable offspring, going by modern human DNA and the Neanderthal fragments contained in it we where one big happy family all along.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#158
post #2

This pairs nicely with the recent publications around Neanderthal cognitive abilities and how there likely similar to ours ( https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/04/neanderthal-brains-m... ).

The real reason why now, every two weeks, you are bombarded with articles about how great Neanderthals were... - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2UUsisXvwoM

They were pretty great though.

I mean, racism and people using anthropology to try and act superior to each other aside (which, I will grant, is a pretty big fucking aside): neanderthals were crazy strong and had bodies which had much more "explosive" muscle fibres than that of modern humans (or H. Sapiens of the era).

They, of course, had significant misgivings which likely led to their extinction- but I wonder how a stocky, heavy-browed, big-toothed, barrel-chested bloke with no chin but a jaw like a breeze block Neanderthal would get along in todays world. They're built for Rugby.

Would be cool to experience.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#159
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the 'IQ' people conveniently ignore how the IQ test is such a poor measure for intelligence & resourcefulness

I learned a long time ago that people who talk about IQ don't usually have anything intelligent to say.

I also tend to find people who score well on those tests don't put much stock into them.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#160
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real reason why now, every two weeks, you are bombarded with articles about how great Neanderthals were... - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2UUsisXvwoM

They were pretty great though. I mean, racism and people using anthropology to try and act superior to each other aside (which, I will grant, is a pretty big fucking aside): neanderthals were crazy strong and had bodies which had much more "explosive" muscle fibres than that of modern humans (or H. Sapiens of the era). They, of course, had significant misgivings which likely led to their extinction- but I wonder how…

After doing a bit more digging, the reality is more interesting than the video implies. Neanderthals didn't get a rebrand because white people found out they shared DNA; the bad reputation was always built on dodgy science that was already being dismantled.

The whole "brutish caveman" thing traces back to 1908, when a French palaeontologist called Marcellin Boule got his hands on a nearly complete Neanderthal skeleton and reconstructed it as a stooped, bent-kneed, gorilla-like creature[0]. Problem is, he got it completely wrong; the skeleton had severe arthritis, which he either missed or ignored, and he projected Victorian-era ideas about racial hierarchy onto the bones. It took until the 1950s for anyone to seriously challenge it[1], by which point the image was baked into popular culture.

The thing is though that the prejudice didn't even start with Boule. From the very first specimen found in 1856[2], scientists were already calling Neanderthals primitive because 19th-century science was obsessed with ranking humans into racial categories. Neanderthals were useful as a "below us" rung on a ladder that was already bullshit. So yeah, the video's not wrong that racial ideology played a role, but framing it as "white people discovered shared DNA and then rebranded Neanderthals" is a bit too neat. The rehabilitation started decades before the DNA findings, because the racial hierarchy framework that created the caricature fell apart first.

What we actually know now[3] is that they used pigments and art, made tools, cared for their sick, buried their dead, and survived wildly different climates for hundreds of thousands of years. They weren't H. Sapiens' thick cousins; they were a genuinely capable parallel branch of humanity that we happened to absorb (and probably helped push out, though the exact mechanism is still debated[4]).

The DNA thing is interesting but it's more of a "well, this is awkward" footnote to a correction that was already happening, it doesn't seem to be the cause of it.

[0] https://fossilhistory.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/marcellin-bou...

[1] https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/anatomy-and-physiolo...

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34350666/

[3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S295047592...

[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6541251/

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