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Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

theguardian.com

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Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#151

Post by free_bip »

Aurornis wrote: post #148
dTal wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-ink price tags are not uncommon. Technology to track individual customers through the store based on smartphone RF is already deployed in many supermarkets. Some stores even do scan-as-you-shop, where the customer scans the item at the shelf, rather than at the front of the store. There are certainly a lot of i's to dot and t's to cross, but it's hardly a theoretical impossibility - find the right store and you cou…

> Technology to track individual customers through the store based on smartphone RF is already deployed in many supermarkets. Phones have been randomizing and rotating MAC addresses for a long time. With enough antenna arrays you could theoretically track an individual RF source through the store but you wouldn't be able to tie it to a returning customer or identity by itself. The days of easy external phone tracking…

You're already watched by security cameras, it's not hard to do facial recognition anymore. And you have companies literally lining up to sell such facial recognition databases. It's conceivable they could determine what price you pay for groceries while your car is on the way to the store, thanks to Flock.

Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#152

Post by chowells »

crazygringo wrote: post #150
lmkg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that early-bird pricing is transparent and predictable. There is a written, known policy of $X discount during specific hours. You can plan for it. It's never a surprise . Dynamic pricing means sometimes you go there, and Wendy's decides on the fly whether you get a lower price and how much. It gives Wendy's the option to pinch pennies how they see fit for their own benefit, rather than offering a d…

I can't tell if you're implying that Wendy's was going to offer different prices to different customers "on the fly", but that wasn't the case. It was store-wide with updated prices shown clearly. Yes it could change on a daily basis, but you would also expect it to be roughly predictable because the whole point is to get more people to come in when it's cheaper. Saying that Wendy's is "pinching pennies" doesn't make…

So... you just apparate at Wendy's instantly without cost when you decide to go? Most of us aren't so lucky. We need to travel there, which takes time and resources. Sometimes we decide to go through the drive-through and there are 5 cars in front of us and soon 3 more behind us blocking us in. When prices are 20% higher than you expected when you finally get to order, do you leave and waste all that time? Do you pay 20% extra, giving them money for nothing? Economically, both of those options are losses.

(Yes, I understand that Wendy's claimed it was only ever going to be used for discounts. But frankly, I don't believe them. The temptation to increase prices is just too powerful to ignore for a profit-maximizing MBA.)

Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#153

Post by bombcar »

idiotsecant wrote: post #138
crazygringo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand how that would work. Yes, e-ink is great for updating prices, I welcome it at grocery stores. But if both me and another person are standing in front of the prosciutto and cured meats fridge, we're seeing the same prices, even if I'm poor and they're rich.

Just show a barcode. Scan to reveal your personal price. Maybe bundle it with coupons to make people accept it easier.

This already exists at Target - scan each item as you put it in your card, and note the ones that are "cheaper when ordered online for in-store pickup" and complain at the register and get your discount.

Congratulations!

Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#154

Post by fzeroracer »

geremiiah wrote: post #35

Is this why grocery stores are so keen to get you to use their coupon app or hand them your phone number? I always refuse, but I always wondered what they do with the data.

Yes, unfortunately as an example to the problem here my grocery store charges around 20-30% more for the privilege of not using the app. Eventually I relented because I needed the 'savings' and it was the only grocery store available to me.

Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#155

Post by everdrive »

tt24 wrote: post #142
everdrive wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I just hate what the company is doing. I don't even live in MD and have no say in the law whatsoever.

You’re supporting it in your comment.

You're a comment

Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#156

Post by bombcar »

everdrive wrote: post #95
iamnothere wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or I'll just buy as little as possible and buy used whenever possible. This is the way, but also, places like eBay are increasingly “professionalized” by huge resellers and refurbishers who squeeze out any possible margin. I’ve also noticed that thrift and consignment stores aren’t such a bargain anymore. You can often get a better deal from large retailers when they go on clearance. P2P transactions still pay off…

That's good to know regarding ebay. I don't use it much, but I wasn't aware. Agreed with regard to thrift stores. Some of them have seen quite a lot of inflation. I think it's yard sales and minimalism for me.

Even those have price-constraints - if you watch for awhile you get a real feel for the prices that people will pay vs the "value" if you will. Certain thrift stores will be dirt cheap, others (Goodwill) will be barely below Walmart - sometimes you can even scratch the price off and find a clearance sticker for lower under it.

eBay is still worthwhile for some items, but lots of the "deals" on actual used product have moved to other marketplaces like Poshmark.

Shipping kills all of it, however.

Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#157

Post by bombcar »

nzach wrote: post #15

> While the law bans setting higher prices through surveillance pricing, it doesn’t address reducing prices. If a company raises its prices for everyone, and then offers individualized discounts, “suddenly you’ve arrived at the same outcome,” McBrien says. While I agree with the intent of this law, I don't think it will be effective. If you have a system capable of jacking prices up you can just multiply this calcula…

If you dig around in your hotel room the next time you're there, you'll likely find a statutory "list of prices" - often showing $1,000 or more per night for a room you paid $150 for.

Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#158

Post by bombcar »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #143
chimeracoder wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gosh, I hope colleges don't find out about this pricing strategy. They've been doing it for years; it's called "financial aid". It is literally the textbook example of how to get people to pay different amounts for the same thing based on what they are willing or able to pay. It's also why the recent shift in immigration policy has affected top-tier universities so much: domestic education is, by and large, subsidi…

Provided the criteria are transparent and directly applicable I don't see the issue. I wouldn't object to a grocery store that offered standardized discounted rates if you applied with documentation of your financial situation. Whereas an opaque operation with the goal of maximizing the final bill on an individual basis using entirely arbitrary criteria is dystopian and clearly extremely consumer hostile. I can hardl…

Grocery stores already do this! Why do you think there's "senior discount day"?

The thing is nobody will pay more than the advertised price so they want to not list a higher price, and then offer discounts. They do it via coupons and other mechanisms, but they'll never get anyone to pay $20 for a $5 bottle of Coke.

Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#159

Post by bombcar »

Tangurena2 wrote: post #102
geremiiah wrote: post #35

Is this why grocery stores are so keen to get you to use their coupon app or hand them your phone number? I always refuse, but I always wondered what they do with the data.

The amount of "discount" is so much that they must be getting a large income stream from the data. Whenever I see something where the shelf sticker claims a lower price for "digital coupon" (meaning: use their app), I put the item back onto the shelf and move on. I'm willing to use the loyalty cards, but I am not willing to allow the sort of surveillance data that phone apps provide. Margins on items at grocery store…

The dirty secret is there is no income stream from the app, and the data they recover isn't worth much.

What it is is that the people who are price-conscious will clip the coupons and use the loyalty - those who are not will not.

Re: Maryland becomes first state to ban surveillance pricing in grocery stores

#160

Post by handoflixue »

Starman_Jones wrote: post #100
crazygringo wrote: post #44

Sadly, this article doesn't explain how this "surveillance pricing" (which is just a scarier-sounding synonym for "dynamic pricing") would even work in a physical grocery store. Like, prices are displayed on the shelf for everyone to see. And they have to match what you pay at checkout. So how the heck would a grocery store even do this? And this law is specifically around grocery stores . Like, there was a big kerfu…

The use case that jumps out at me is long tail items and whales. Let’s say that you’re a wine store, and you have an assortment of nice Italian wines all priced at $40 (to make it tidy). You’ve priced them competitively to attract your Chianti drinkers to step up and splurge if it’s a special occasion. A customer walks in, and the system recognizes that’s it’s Giovanni Vinoamore. Giovanni only comes in twice a year,…

But how do you do that without people noticing? If I pick up a $40 bottle of wine, and it's suddenly $50 when I hit the register, that's fraudulent pricing - you advertised one price when I picked up the project, but a different one because Giovanni is now in the shop.
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