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China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

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Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#151

Post by glerk »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #140
dublinstats wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't every country be barring people from leaving the country if they've been charged with a crime? At least if there's a good chance they will flee justice. This seems like a side issue from the question of whether the charges are legitimate.

Yes, everyone country does this. You can be barred from travel in a wide range of other circumstances in many other countries. Every person has a nationalistic solipsism that renders them incapable of understanding events that occur outside of their own country. China and the US are two countries where this tends to be most severe, people outside these countries seem to believe they possess a profound and innate unde…

Just because the US also does this doesn’t make it right for China to do it and vice versa.

Team coca-cola and team pepsi are both evil and illegitimate.

Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#152

Post by Invictus0 »

dublinstats wrote: post #122
guywithahat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes I don't think it's actually that uncommon in China, especially with high profile people. To China's credit, we often bar people from leaving the country if they're charged with a crime but not convicted of anything. While it's certainly scary and authoritarian, I think it's par for the course in C…

Shouldn't every country be barring people from leaving the country if they've been charged with a crime? At least if there's a good chance they will flee justice. This seems like a side issue from the question of whether the charges are legitimate.

The Manus founders had already left China. They were called back and went willingly, because if you don't go back, then China disappears your family.

Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#153

Post by maxglute »

bit-anarchist wrote: post #129
maxglute wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another wrong comment doesn't make being wrong less wrong. CEOs/persons trying to sell controlled technology unauthorized for export by origin country. They are direct legal analogs.

Wrong how? It is your comment that is missing the point. The contention isn't whether USA has export control (you are the one who brought it up), it's whether USA has actually prevented a company from being sold overseas by detaining their owners. Are you trying to push a red herring?

US export controls prevent companies from selling controlled tech. If US companies tried o circumvent then they would absolutely be denied, if they did secretly anyway, against, the law of course they'll likely have passport surrendered, i.e. exit ban if flight risk.

Like this isn't complicated, the difference is Manus was full blown retarded enough to transparently circumvent PRC export controls after PRC closed loopholes and politely signalled them to stop, which they didn't, i.e. they broke actual export control laws. Like Manus didn't try to sell, they fucking sold, sign and dotted, despite being told not to, because its against export control laws.

Even US companies rarely this blatantly dense. Americans getting exit banned for selling controlled hardware is LESS serious then what Manus tried to do, i.e. lesser (relative) export control crimes in US getting same treatment.

Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#154

Post by Lucasoato »

verdverm wrote: post #77
kubb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow this is about the EU?

The world order is early on in a major restructuring. The EU is a major region and on a path to greater self reliance and determination. This is good for the world imo (as an American)

EU is on the right path, but the problem is that we’re going way too slow.

Check out the “28th regime” that standardizes incorporation for European companies, it was announced back in November, and it won’t see the light this year probably. We can’t wait any second more, we need to act now not to become totally irrelevant and it might even be too late.

Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#155

Post by xtracto »

observationist wrote: post #139
giwook wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow I think there is a real possibility more will happen. Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes. I don't claim to know what's going on outside of what's being reported, but I'm reminded of other individuals who have "stepped out of line" (as determined by Beijing) and were also either barred from the country or mysteriously disappea…

>>> Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes. This is standard operating procedure for the CCP. They are a truly ruthless, sinister group who have no scruples about ensuring compliance and using leverage on behalf of Chinese interests. Just look at what happened to Jack Ma.

Gemini, Give me examples of people that the US has retained passports pending investigations

It's standard procedure in every country for some investigations.

Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#156

Post by justinclift »

DontBreakAlex wrote: post #127
aesch wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if America has done anything quite like this. The example I'm looking for is where a company starts in the US but leaves and incorporates outside the US and then the US attempts to block acquisition by a foreign company. Also, the enforcement mechanism while vague seems un-American. America might tax the company upon exit but it wouldn't hold the founders hostage in America. If you have examples I'd be c…

You don't need to incorporate in the US for this to happen to you. You should look up what happened to Marc Lasus after he founded Gemplus (spoiler, he's on social security while the company the CIA stole from him has $3b revenue) or how Frédéric Pierucci was taken hostage to force the sale of France's nuclear reactors to General Electric. I assume the US does this to all the other countries too.

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Pierucci#Im...

This is relevant too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47765974

Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#157

Post by intrasight »

Invictus0 wrote: post #152
dublinstats wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't every country be barring people from leaving the country if they've been charged with a crime? At least if there's a good chance they will flee justice. This seems like a side issue from the question of whether the charges are legitimate.

The Manus founders had already left China. They were called back and went willingly, because if you don't go back, then China disappears your family.

Thanks for explaining why they would willingly return.

Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#158

Post by rvnx »

ericmay wrote: post #142
wahnfrieden wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you make of this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47927544

Not much, none of those cases from the US resulted in disappearing the founders. The US is a nation of laws, no matter how imperfect. Stark contrast to the CCP.

At the end of the day, the process itself, years of investigation, millions in legal fees, frozen assets, destroyed careers is often the punishment regardless of whether charges stick or convictions hold up.

Not sure we can give any lessons to the world.

Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#159

Post by Fricken »

observationist wrote: post #139
giwook wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow I think there is a real possibility more will happen. Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes. I don't claim to know what's going on outside of what's being reported, but I'm reminded of other individuals who have "stepped out of line" (as determined by Beijing) and were also either barred from the country or mysteriously disappea…

>>> Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes. This is standard operating procedure for the CCP. They are a truly ruthless, sinister group who have no scruples about ensuring compliance and using leverage on behalf of Chinese interests. Just look at what happened to Jack Ma.

Jack Ma is fine. If that's what you mean by ruthless then it's not really a big deal.

Re: China blocks Meta's acquisition of AI startup Manus

#160

Post by nutjob2 »

xtracto wrote: post #155
observationist wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes. This is standard operating procedure for the CCP. They are a truly ruthless, sinister group who have no scruples about ensuring compliance and using leverage on behalf of Chinese interests. Just look at what happened to Jack Ma.

Gemini, Give me examples of people that the US has retained passports pending investigations It's standard procedure in every country for some investigations.

This is false equivalence.

Outside of immigration issues, you can only be made to surrender your passport if you have been arrested and indicted for a crime, as a part of bail. That power can only be granted by a judge.

China arbitrarily traps people in China without any such thing or any due process whatsoever.

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