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Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

road.cc

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Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#151

Post by rolph »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #136
Shadowed_ wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could fine them. And increase fine for each repetition so rich can't just pay to be jerks.

All the fines in the world won’t save you from getting mowed down by a distracted driver on their phone. Drinking and driving has heavy fine deterrents, yet people still do it anyway. You know what stops a drunk or distracted driver from killing someone? A cement barrier

add to that, a class of drivers that believe two wheel vehicles have no place on public thoroughfares, openly hostile to non cars.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#152

Post by CrimsonRain »

Stratoscope wrote: post #103

I won't comment on the pick up / drop off situation, but another important scenario is right turns. In California, drivers are legally required to merge into the bike lane when making a right turn. This is for the safety of the bicyclists, to avoid the dreaded "right hook" collision. Dylan Taylor, a beloved Menlo-Atherton High School football coach, was killed last year in one of these collisions: https://www.almanac…

And when you do that, (most) cyclists behind you get angry. (Most) cyclists are rude and act like they own the road.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#153

Post by rolph »

cosmotic wrote: post #118
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities who want to keep cars out of bike lanes should stop offering “mom says we have bike lanes at home” repainting of streets. Create a curb and raise the bike lanes. It’s the only safe solution. I understand this is not realistic in a lot of scenarios but it is basically the only way you can achieve actual safety short of cement separators at the road level, which is basically a curb anyway. There’s just no realit…

I've seen people park in these curbed bike lanes too, completely blocking it off.

ive also seen cyclists having to squeeze by, and are forced to offer up against the side of the blocking vehicle to avoid being hit, leaving pinstripes bumper to bumper.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#154

Post by dualvariable »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #75
spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

I’m pretty sure it went something like “so where are we allowed to pickup and drop off riders” and the city couldn’t answer. The problem isn’t really enforcement, the problem is that there are simply no alternatives, and the city shies away from enforcement because they know that. If they started enforcing the rules strictly, people would again ask questions that they aren’t prepared to answer. If you compare that to…

One question the city probably can't answer is what disabled persons in the taxi are supposed to do. If you strictly enforce bike lanes the result is probably the rider needing to walk a few blocks. If the rider is disabled, that could actually be a huge burden. Since I've got an 80+ year old disabled parent with a walker this is an issue for me that does compete pretty aggressively with my support for bikes.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#156

Post by wffurr »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #96
spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

Cities who want to keep cars out of bike lanes should stop offering “mom says we have bike lanes at home” repainting of streets. Create a curb and raise the bike lanes. It’s the only safe solution. I understand this is not realistic in a lot of scenarios but it is basically the only way you can achieve actual safety short of cement separators at the road level, which is basically a curb anyway. There’s just no realit…

Yes! Concrete please!

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#158

Post by [deleted] »

SR2Z wrote: post #131
spankalee wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking the right car lane for a drop off is perfectly legal outside of No Stopping zones. This is how taxis have always worked. It's just that other drivers get pissed off if you block a car lane when there's a bike lane next to it. That needs to be trained away by enforcing the rules.

That needs to be trained away by physically separating bike lanes from car lanes. Drivers (at least human ones) cannot safely coexist with cyclists or pedestrians unless there are actual physical obstacles between moving traffic and everyone else.

[deleted]

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#159

Post by ghaff »

xscott wrote: post #145
ghaff wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find cyclists especially obnoxious on the rail-trails I often walk on. But I have walked on rail-trails with a lot of bicycles where various people got pretty pissy because I wouldn't step off the trail every minute.

I don't understand: They get pissy, but you don't find that obnoxious? If cyclists got off the roads every time a car comes by, that would be consistent with their expectations for walking paths.

No, I'm saying most cyclists are reasonable but I've been on crowded trails with elevation changes where they haven't been and have acted as if they had the right of way and have sometimes gotten pissy if I didn't get out of the way quickly enough.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#160

Post by slibhb »

spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

I agree with your analysis but I just want to point out that, as a general rule, cyclists do not follow traffic laws. They don't stop at stop signs/red lights. They weave in and out of traffic. They often bike the wrong way down one-way bike paths.
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