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America's Geothermal Breakthrough

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Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#151

Post by Y-bar »

zdragnar wrote: post #148
Y-bar wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid about EUR 4500 for a 114 meter drill hole including installation of brine (ethanol in my case actually) and removal of spoils. My 8kW heat+water pump was about EUR 7000. I can spec out a gas burner for about EUR 4000 and a central AC for EUR 5000, but I bet the efficiency of the ground source heater would quickly trump the cost of buying gas regularly.

That's insanely cheap compared to what we can get around here. Most installs I've heard of from people in the US are in the $20-50,000 range, depending on the size of their home and number of wells needed.

Yet it did not feel very cheap to me. The price of the pump had increased from 4800 only a year earlier due to the war in Ukraine.

There were a number of steps I had to go through. First I had to file for permission at the County Office, where they verify that drilling in the area is acceptable and that the intended pump follows regulations with respect to cooling media, and that the drilling company was certified to drill for my needs. It did cost about 70 euros.

I needed effective zero plumbing work in the house as it was already prepared to accept heating from a pump like that. Perhaps that is one of the major costs in USA?

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#152

Post by msandford »

ksec wrote: post #121
wesapien wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems with the data center boom is its use of fresh water. How does geo-thermal plants use water and how much?

I dont know why this keeps coming up? It is a closed loop system. The water aren't used at all.

It's a closed loop on the geo side sure.

How do you cool the steam off enough to condense so it can go and be boiler feed water again?

Lots of power plants use cooling towers for this which are typically evaporative. Some are dry, sure, but most are wet.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#153

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mc32 wrote: post #33
mskogly wrote: post #11

[flagged]

You know how the United Arab Emirates are known as the Emirates, how the United Mexican Sates are known as Mexico and how the United States of America is known as America? Are you unfamiliar with what synecdoche is?

> how the United Mexican Sates are known as Mexico

I can’t believe I didn’t know that’s Mexico’s official name! TIL!

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#155

Post by mijailt »

LeFantome wrote: post #82
mskogly wrote: post #11

[flagged]

There is no continent called “America”.

Surprisingly, this depends on your culture.

Depending on where you're from you'll have been taught a different set of continents (North + South America / America, Europe + Asia / Eurasia).

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#156

Post by wood_spirit »

sgerenser wrote: post #146
hvb2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Air source heat pumps are insanely more efficient Citation needed? Efficient how? I'm sure a heat pump designed for a narrow range of input temperatures AND working with water which can transport a lot more heat should easily be more efficient. https://www.energysage.com/heat-pumps/compare-air-source-geo... Seems to disagree

I assuming he means insanely more efficient than they used to be, not more efficient than ground-source (awkward wording though). I suppose they can also be described as more efficient in installation time, cost and equipment than ground source, but clearly not in operating efficiency.

Yes air source are really good value in cost effectiveness terms, especially when a house has an existing central heating system they can connect to. But their COP - whilst dramatically improving in the last 10-20 years - is still behind ground source, particularly in the north during winter

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#157

Post by dyauspitr »

pedalpete wrote: post #47

According to google, this would be almost 30% of total US energy production (135gw-150gw) and nearly 5% of total US energy consumption. But what is the "breakthrough" if there is one? The article doesn't really suggest any breakthrough that is unlocking this potential energy? Or maybe I'm looking for a technological breakthrough where there isn't one.

It’s a stupid ploy by oil drillers to try and expand their existing capex to something more future proof. Their theory is to randomly frack the ground and hope superheated water shows up there. It’s probably just going to end up ruining existing groundwater sources.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#158

Post by AlotOfReading »

lostlogin wrote: post #133
dboreham wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also places in the US with boiling water at the surface. I live near one of those places so always curious about geothermal. There's a spot near my house in a creek bed where snow always melts even in deep winter so apparently I have some potential heat source. Our well water is cold though.

Not near me, but hot water spring, rivers and beaches made for a nice soak every now and again. Turning them all into power plants would be a shame, but there is plenty of space for both.

You don't necessarily have to choose one or the other. The Blue lagoon in Iceland is a famous example. The water comes from a power plant nearby.

You're not required to site them that close either, because of how regional the conditions usually are. A couple miles plus or minus doesn't change things too much.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#159

Post by nandomrumber »

the_why_of_y wrote: post #134
nandomrumber wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blocking a developer that wants to buy wind turbines from another country and install them in the US does not make domestic energy cheaper or make domestic supply chains more resilient. On the other hand, there are, what, approximately zero examples of where wind / solar market penetration is worth writing about and electricity has gotten cheaper.

Australian households will be able to access free electricity for three hours every day, in an effort to encourage energy use when excess solar power is being fed into the grid. The federal government scheme will require retailers to offer free electricity to households for at least three hours in the middle of the day, when there is often more electricity generated than is being used, leading to very cheap or even n…

Free electricity in the middle of the day.

That’ll come in handy for the, actually way too many people, who are home during the middle of the day.

And how does that help people who already have solar? Free electricity in the middle of the day doesn’t really help them.

And, actually, has this been implemented yet? It’s been 6 months since it was announced.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#160

Post by acdha »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #2

I worked on geothermal control systems a decade or so back. There are some less obvious applications for geothermal that reduce electric use (as opposed to generating electricity). The systems I worked on were for cooling larger structures like commercial greenhouses, gov installations and mansions. 64° degree water would be pumped up from 400' down, run thru a series of chillers (for a/c) and then returned undergrou…

> I always thought this method could be used to provide a/c for neighborhoods, operated as a neighborhood utility. I've not seen it done tho. I've seen neighborhood owned water supplies and sewer systems; it tells me the ownership part seems feasible.

I keep thinking this would be a great municipal code change: any time the roads are being built or ripped up for water/sewer maintenance, put in a ground loop and subsidize household connections for heat pumps so instead of having to deal with the marginal difference between 20℉ winter air you'd be working with 50-60℉ ground temperatures.

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