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MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

blog.meshcore.io

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Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#151
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This + amateur radio is designed to be open, no encryption, anyone can talk with anyone, and if you're "being stupid" (to not use other terms), anyone can tell you so. The "secret, encrypted, private" chats correlate more with random "doomsday preppers", and younger non-hams (cheap, no need to get licenced). Many of those people buy (ham) radios too ("for emergencies", can't transmit legally anyway), but don't really…

You can legally transmit for any emergency, regardless of licensing status. The emergency definition is purposefully left ambiguous so as to apply to many situations. Lost in the woods? Go ahead, transmit; the FCC isn't going to knock on your door if you live. Every HAM should know this already.

This is the correct info. Anyone in an emergency is allowed to use the amateur frequencies. Just got my technician license a couple weeks ago, emergency use is even actually on the test!

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#152
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This + amateur radio is designed to be open, no encryption, anyone can talk with anyone, and if you're "being stupid" (to not use other terms), anyone can tell you so. The "secret, encrypted, private" chats correlate more with random "doomsday preppers", and younger non-hams (cheap, no need to get licenced). Many of those people buy (ham) radios too ("for emergencies", can't transmit legally anyway), but don't really…

You can legally transmit for any emergency, regardless of licensing status. The emergency definition is purposefully left ambiguous so as to apply to many situations. Lost in the woods? Go ahead, transmit; the FCC isn't going to knock on your door if you live. Every HAM should know this already.

[deleted]

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unique to american hams. Most of the world just collects dx entities like pokemon, pota/sota locations, backpain complaints on nets and argue if ft8 counts or not for anything.

Collecting replies like pokemon seems like a real waste of time in my opinion. I can send an ICMP ping to something I know is in Svalbard Norway across the regular Internet and get a reply, but I don't pin a postcard to a cork board on my wall celebrating my amazing technical accomplishment. Similarly, for all the effort that people put forth to do EME and get bidirectional traffic with some tiny data payload bounced…

Sure, and walking uphill just do walk downhill is pointless too, and people are also bragging they've gone very far uphill to go very far back downhill,... they could be doing much more useful things instead of climbing mt. everest. Why bother, when you're higher than that (almost) every time you fly in a plane?

But hey, like with everest, you don't have to do EME or collect countries if you don't want, nor you have to climb different mountain tops, hike the trails, etc. You don't even need to travel, it's cheaper just to see everything on youtube.

Some people like their hobbies, and if that hobby is to climb high mountains or reach as many countries as possible, then why not? Amateur radio is a hobby, if you want to work on eg. starlink, they could ne hiring.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#154
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know any of the players but I'd bet they're licensed amateur radio operators.

Speaking as a person who works professionally in fcc part 101 licensed point to point microwave systems carrying IP data, I have less than zero patience for the BS and shenanigans of analog ham radio enthusiasts. They always want to posture as if they'll be some critical service every emergency responder comes running to in a major disaster and it rarely if ever happens. In the interests of not reinventing the wheel,…

Not sure why you're denigrating HAM radio folks. They have in fact historically already been useful and critical in emergencies, most recently in 2024 for hurricane Helene. Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean its not. I mean RACES is even a whole thing explicitly outlined because the government realizes the value of some ham radio operators.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#155
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can legally transmit for any emergency, regardless of licensing status. The emergency definition is purposefully left ambiguous so as to apply to many situations. Lost in the woods? Go ahead, transmit; the FCC isn't going to knock on your door if you live. Every HAM should know this already.

This is the correct info. Anyone in an emergency is allowed to use the amateur frequencies. Just got my technician license a couple weeks ago, emergency use is even actually on the test!

The 97.403?

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D...

> No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.

That rule applies only to amateur stations (it says so right in the text!), not unlicenced individuals. What an amateur station is is defined in the beggining of the document, and yes, that requires the a duly-authroized (licenced) operator.

The last thing you want in an emergency event is some prepper with a baofeng transmitting on a repeaters frequency without a subtone set (because he's too stupid to pass an exam that 10yo kids can pass) effectively jamming it for proper emergency users. The other thing is, that chances are no one will actually hear you, especially on simplex. With tools like garmin inreach, carrying an HT with you instead of something proper and relying on that to save you in a time of need is just stupid.

Ham radio is like driving, you need experience to do it, and even some experienced people still do it badly. Trying to figure out how to drive by reading a car manual while the flood waters are rising is going to be a pretty bad experience.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the correct info. Anyone in an emergency is allowed to use the amateur frequencies. Just got my technician license a couple weeks ago, emergency use is even actually on the test!

The 97.403? https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D... > No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. That rule applies only to amateur stati…

Well, according to multiple times where people have checked with FCC enforcement folks, the spirit of the ruling covers unlicensed users operating in amateur bands for real emergencies.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 97.403? https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D... > No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. That rule applies only to amateur stati…

Well, according to multiple times where people have checked with FCC enforcement folks, the spirit of the ruling covers unlicensed users operating in amateur bands for real emergencies.

The rules are clear here, there is no "spirit" in the law. The problem is, that the myth of somehow being "saved" by having a baofeng with you is spreading and people will die because of that. Hopefully only the baofengers and not others, affected by people who would effectively jam multiple others operating on eg. a repeater.

Ham radios don't just appear, someone has to buy them, buying one without getting a proper licence is just stupid.... but many (especially americans) do so. There is GMRS, there is FRS, people could take those radios, try them out when not in an emergency, but nope... everyone wants that uv-5r for some reason.

Every one of those preppers should get licenced first, go to some hiking trail, some remote..ish pota park and try to do an unspotter POTA activation there... and after failing horribly, they'll rethink their emergency communications. Somehow even licenced hams (about which I assume none actually tried doing an unspotted pota from some hiking trail) support and spread the "just buy a baofeng for emergencies". In reality... they're useless in most cases. If you're somewhere remote, no one will hear you anyway, and if you're stuck at home, having something like a starlink will actually help you reach someone, much better than a radio, especially a handheld 2m/70cm one. You might get some good but useless DX with an HF one, but you won't be setting up an NVIS antenna in a snow storm.

But hey... try explaining that to preppers.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#158
post #22

> Would you trust AI generated mesh firmware ? It's ridiculous to me that they're concerned about the trustworthiness of AI-generated code when their code quality is so low. They don't even have automated tests and ignore attempts to add them.[0, 1, 2, 3] Last I checked, there's little validity checking in the code, so it's possible to broadcast nonsense values (like GPS coordinates outside of Earth's bounds) and the…

What's an example of a GPS coordinate "outside earth's bounds"?

32˚N 80˚W altitude 1000 miles

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, according to multiple times where people have checked with FCC enforcement folks, the spirit of the ruling covers unlicensed users operating in amateur bands for real emergencies.

The rules are clear here, there is no "spirit" in the law. The problem is, that the myth of somehow being "saved" by having a baofeng with you is spreading and people will die because of that. Hopefully only the baofengers and not others, affected by people who would effectively jam multiple others operating on eg. a repeater. Ham radios don't just appear, someone has to buy them, buying one without getting a proper…

the rules arent clear, which is why 97.403 and 97.405 have been argued nauseam for a VERY long time. It's intentionally vague so that some people cant claim being out of soap as an emergency. But during a real emergency (someone had a heart attack on the floor, you're being chased by an axe murderer, etc) every single representative has said that the spirit of those parts covers the person. I don't disagree that people should get licensed, mostly so they know how and where to operate the radios or god forbid we do have a collapse and do have to fix up our own radios and antennas.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules are clear here, there is no "spirit" in the law. The problem is, that the myth of somehow being "saved" by having a baofeng with you is spreading and people will die because of that. Hopefully only the baofengers and not others, affected by people who would effectively jam multiple others operating on eg. a repeater. Ham radios don't just appear, someone has to buy them, buying one without getting a proper…

the rules arent clear, which is why 97.403 and 97.405 have been argued nauseam for a VERY long time. It's intentionally vague so that some people cant claim being out of soap as an emergency. But during a real emergency (someone had a heart attack on the floor, you're being chased by an axe murderer, etc) every single representative has said that the spirit of those parts covers the person. I don't disagree that peop…

It's not actually vague, if they wanted "everyone" to do that, they'd use "everyone","anyone" or some similar wording, not specifically limit the exception to amateur station. Someone chose that for a reason, and it's a good reason... even licenced hams can cause trouble (eg. forget to turn off a simplex repeater on a radio, "mars mod" it and then jam the fire department frequencies with it,... a few weeks ago), and people who can't pass the simple exam don't need such radios, they can get by with GMRS (if they're from US and able to fill out an online form) for FRS/PMR (if they're not) or even MURS (again in US). There is no real difference in range between an uv-5r and a uv-5g (ham and gmrs radios), and a very small difference with frs/pmr (you need a line of sight anyway).

If someone had a heart attack, somewhere remote enough, that there is no cell signal, using a GMRS radio will have the same effect and range than a ham radio (i'm talking about 5W HTs here). Using something like a garmin inreach would actually get them help, but still, preppers want their baofengs, and for some reason don't want the *g models. That's why i get bothered when people promote ham radios, especially baofengs for emergencies, because they'll be useless in most cases and people who don't know that, will rely on them instead of getting a proper tool for the job. Many of those even have that in their pockets right now (some samsungs and iphone can do satellite communications already). Promoting the "you don't need a licence in emergencies" and then turning to "you'll be breaking the law anyway but who cares" mentality means that people don't learn even the basics (if they did, they'd be able to pass the exam) but still rely on those radios to get help.. and in turn, people will die because of that.

As i said before.. if you have a heart attack in the middle of nowhere, a baofeng won't get you help. If you went with gmrs/frs, you'd test it out and see the limited range and that no one is actually listening out there (unless arranged, and that person is in simplex range), if you get licenced, then you'd do the same, call out cqs into the void until you got bored, but if you do the "just buy one, you don't need licences..." (even if you do need to be licenced), people will be using that radio for the first time during an active emergency and fail in getting help with them. Stop promoting the untrue myth of getting help with a ham radio, instead offer proper tools for the job and people will actually be able to get help.

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