Feels like a classic “we’re just the processor” answer
But in reality you have no way to find or contact whoever actually controls the data, so it doesn’t really help. Kind of shows the gap between how the law works on paper vs how these systems work in practice.
I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
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Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
#152The concept of what constitutes a sale under CCPA is pretty expansive. An exchange of value can be a sale that occurs outside of a processing relationship. I’d say their note is inaccurate.
Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
The laws say that data about you is your data, information about you is your information. No one is saying that you "own the data", but by virtue of the data being personal information about you specificially you are allowed to exert control over that data, such as asking for it to be deleted.
That view of data ownership is _highly_ jurisdiction dependent and is not the overwhelming norm in the US.
While that's definitely true, in this particular case he's invoking his rights under CCPA.
Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
AFAIK Flock owns the cameras and leases them out [0]. [0] https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-safety-does-my-neighb...
But the data collected is property of the government and flock is not allowed to use that data for additional business gain (according to their statements)... So they can't sell the fact that you're at Target at 8:00 p.m. on Thursday to anybody... Nor build profiles to sell to advertisers... And if that's the case that's very similar to cloud storage vendors. If I access hacker news, and the record of my visit is sto…
I don’t care. I don’t care who owns the data. If I can’t easily get private information like my movements removed from a database like this, the legislation does not sufficiently protect me.
It should absolutely be Flock’s responsibility to remove my data and we should absolutely require it by law. Full stop.
Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but in this context the license plate number is still personal information, just of a different person.
The CCPA explictly says: > “Personal information” does not include [...] Information that a business has a reasonable basis to believe is lawfully made available to the general public by the consumer
California has an entire statute regulating ALPR information, so we don't need to derive this axiomatically.
Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
#156It's not much worse than all the tracking adtech used by FAANG industry. Smartest people in the world working on these systems.
Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
#157Remember that the difference between "Flock can do whatever the hell it wants" and "Flock is required to delete your data at your request" is a law. Citizens vote for legislators. If you want this to be a higher priority for your legislators, buy them off. Or vote for/against them, that might work too.
Reminds me of this article from a while back:
https://theonion.com/american-people-hire-high-powered-lobby...
Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
#158I wrote this. I had/have absolutely no expectation that Flock would comply with my request, but figured I should try anyway For Science. Their reply rubbed me wrong, though. They seem to claim that there are no restrictions on their collection and processing of PII because other people pay them for it. They say: > Flock Safety’s customers own the data and make all decisions around how such data is used and shared. wh…
You might reach out to the California AG. I suspect they are itching for this kind of thing right now.
Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't this just the routine fascist playbook at this point? Start by declaring that the law doesn't even apply to them, on whatever flimsiest of bases. Personally I would really like to see torts for attorneys who willfully promulgate blatantly incorrect legal interpretations - they're effectively providing incorrect legal advice. A non-attorney is likely to believe such advice coming from a member of the Bar, and th…
An attorney whom you have not engaged in counsel is not providing legal advice.
I'm well aware of how it's currently legally defined - hence "effectively". My comment is in the context of what ought, not what is.
Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the data collected is property of the government and flock is not allowed to use that data for additional business gain (according to their statements)... So they can't sell the fact that you're at Target at 8:00 p.m. on Thursday to anybody... Nor build profiles to sell to advertisers... And if that's the case that's very similar to cloud storage vendors. If I access hacker news, and the record of my visit is sto…
I don’t care. I don’t care who owns the data. If I can’t easily get private information like my movements removed from a database like this, the legislation does not sufficiently protect me. It should absolutely be Flock’s responsibility to remove my data and we should absolutely require it by law. Full stop.
A reasonably nuanced defense could likely claim that to be able to do what you want, would have much worse side effects on privacy.
For example, would you want to be able to tell Public Storage (or some other storage unit place) to remove any naked photos of you stored anywhere in their storage units?
For them to actually be able to do that would require they have nigh omniscience on everything stored by/for everyone in every one of their storage units. Even inside closed boxes.
Now, it's not the same thing of course - but hopefully you understand what I'm referring to?