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Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

joanwestenberg.com

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Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#151

Post by scarecrowbob »

sfink wrote: post #20
tw04 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, we know the hotshot CEO of COMPANY_NAME_HERE has to put on his pants one leg at a time, but the similarity ends there. That’s probably because we know consciously or subconsciously that in order to get and maintain a position of power at a multibillion dollar firm the person either never had a moral compass or quickly had to find ways to justify ignoring or compromising it. Any one of us who has worked for on…

> That’s probably because we know consciously or subconsciously that in order to get and maintain a position of power at a multibillion dollar firm the person either never had a moral compass or quickly had to find ways to justify ignoring or compromising it. Maybe. But I suspect that we tend to view those people that way because they play the I Am A Special Human game in public, especially around those they want to…

All your analysis does is ignore what folks' actual concerns are.

Of course everybody eventually has to take a shit and has dumb jokes.

You're just ignoring some very real differences in how folks relate because of their circumstances and declaring that those of us who understand those differences are dumb.

You're not a temporarily embarrassed billionaire. Having hung out with them, their concerns really are very different than say, the line cooks and journyman HVAC electricians.

While it's tautologically correct that the billionaires also have to have lunch at some point in the day, the specifics of it are vastly different. But more importantly, the ways in which they make their basic livings are fundamentally different in ways that lead them act differently.

That's the difference that folks are point out, and ignoring it just makes you look ignorant of some basic facts about the world.

Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#152

Post by pas »

fluoridation wrote: post #146
pas wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people's character also changes over time, and everyone's work is built on other people's (of course usually people try to make sure those people are credited correctly) he is more of an extremely driven and singularly lucky workaholic asshole with sufficient capacity to cram a lot of technical details (or drugs) into his head, which impressed and motivated technical staff (and investors), who then morphed into this…

I've yet to see any evidence of Musk's workaholism or technical know-how.

I base my claims on this review of the 2015 Musk biography by Ashlee Vance:

https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/book-review-elon-musk

Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#153

Post by bluefirebrand »

muglug wrote: post #21
qznc wrote: post #3

For my mental model how White House politics work, this article was very influential: https://www.thewrap.com/obama-aides-say-veep-accurate-west-w... > “The funny thing about ‘Veep’ is, we as people who worked in the White House always get asked, okay, what’s the most real? Is it ‘House of Cards? Is it ‘West Wing’? And the answer is, it’s ‘Veep.’ Because you guys nail the fragility of the egos, and the, like, day-to-…

All gossip I hear about the extremely powerful leads me to believe that they’d be utterly unable to organise any sort of conspiracy themselves. Most haven’t touched Google Calendar in a decade. They can’t call anyone without their assistant typing in the number first.

This might have more to do with their average age than anything though

Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#154

Post by jaybrendansmith »

throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #108
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I though the 4D chess explanation was that he bought it (was forced to buy it by courts) because he was entering politics and wanted to be able to ensure the deaths of half a million children in Africa: https://www.impactcounter.com/dashboard?view=table&sort=inte... It looks like he succeeded wildly at that.

There is a better 4D chess explanation of why Alon bought twitter and i hate to bring it. When he bought it, right wing publications all over world got excited because twitter was the global / official communications channel for alot of entities and largely considered left leaning. When your plan is to disrupt that bubble and amplify right leaning narratives (he helped trump1 getting elected with it), you better cove…

I think this is spot on. Poor man wanna be rich, rich man wanna be King, king ain't satisfied till he rules everything.

Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#155

Post by red-iron-pine »

wallst07 wrote: post #130
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Amount of people who are both seriously willing to take the job(considering pressure) and have necessary skills is not very high. I don't believe that. The average CEO is going to have perhaps ten direct reports. I'm willing to bet nearly every one of those is capable and up for the job.

I don't think so, not even close. In my past I got high enough to barely touch the ceiling of a multi-billion dollar public company. I routinely had 1:1s with directs to the CEO. Not one of them would be willing or able to take that CEO job. Just the amount of public facing interviews on CNBC would disqualify half and the other half wouldn't want to do it. They were already being paid very well.

if they're directs to the CEO they're also C-levels and are getting pretty solid compensation.

CFO or CTO or CISO gets compensated, and they have significant challenges and stress.

Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#156

Post by red-iron-pine »

Arainach wrote: post #51
Tinned_Tuna wrote: post #39

I don't think the author read even the Wikipedia page on Napoleon's invasion of Russia? Napoleon _did_ have reasons for attacking Russia, he _did_ prepare logistics. His motives, rationale, and actions are well-documented and widely studied. > watching an unchecked megalomaniac march 685,000 soldiers into a Russian winter without a fur coat in sight Napoleon famously crossed the Neman River in *June*.

If you believe a war with a country the size of Russia will be over within 4 months you might not be a genius.

Napoleon thought the Russians would come out and fight him, instead of burning their country down in retreat and letting L'Empereur's army steal their stuff and rape their people

they chose scorched earth retreat, and history proved them right.

Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#157

Post by PsylentKnight »

eastof wrote: post #12
tw04 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, we know the hotshot CEO of COMPANY_NAME_HERE has to put on his pants one leg at a time, but the similarity ends there. That’s probably because we know consciously or subconsciously that in order to get and maintain a position of power at a multibillion dollar firm the person either never had a moral compass or quickly had to find ways to justify ignoring or compromising it. Any one of us who has worked for on…

You are still falling for the evil genius trap. The truth is all of us treat our fellow humans this way, see Singer's drowning child. We're simply not wired to care as much about even large groups of people when they are not people we regularly interact with.

I think you'd need to present some stats that compare how much the ultra-wealthy and normal people donate to altruistic causes (adjusted for income) to make that argument

Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#158

Post by dzikimarian »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #132
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of competent people prefer calmer life I may not be _that_ competent, but the calmer life is worth sacrificing a fair few dollars for. For each job I've changed, I've gone to a lower paying position, such that I'm currently still on $10k (around 8%) less than I was earning... 5 years ago, two jobs ago, which was probably about the same as the job I left 6 years before that. All previous jobs were worth leavin…

Have you considered being paid $20 million for one year, and then staying home with family for the next ten years? Even after taxes, you'd still have much more of both time and money than a career in, say, air traffic control.

Following Boeing example you given below - it's not like the guy was given offer to become a CEO out of the blue & had to endure year to be set for life.

He was slowly climbing through the ranks of huge organization over the span of almost 30 years. Given later revelations I certainly wouldn't call it easy or calm - likely even morally challenging sometimes (not admiring anything here - simply any position of power comes with this kind of issues - no matter you're playing for good or bad guys).

Taste of Boeing shareholders for execs is whole other discussion, but I really don't think there's huge crowd of people both willing and capable of filling those shoes.

Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#159

Post by jq-r »

wallst07 wrote: post #131
pasquinelli wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but i have to wonder what powerful people actually bring to the table.

Leadership. Most here won't want to hear it, but the average person does not want to lead. They want to be told everything will be alright. Leading + consequences is difficult and stressful. Heck, just leading your own household is stressful, try doing it for someone else or 1000s.

Mismanaging your household finances can ruin your livelihood and you might end up on the street.

Mismanaging a company which you didn’t build won’t ruin your livelihood. It might of the employees. It may weight heavy on your conscience but we’ve heard enough of those “I take full responsibility” phrases that we know how heavy is that.

Re: Sometimes powerful people just do dumb shit

#160

Post by Arainach »

ekianjo wrote: post #111
Arainach wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe a war with a country the size of Russia will be over within 4 months you might not be a genius.

> country the size of Russia density of population is not equal to land mass, you know

I intentionally didn't say "the population of Russia". Occupying an enormous land mass takes an enormous amount of time (arguably infinite) and resources.

OK, Napoleon is right and he's "conquered" Russia in a month. Are all of those troops being sent home before winter?

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