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The End of Eleventy

brennan.day

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Re: The End of Eleventy

#151

Post by npilk »

ValentineC wrote: post #52
npilk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I find LLMs are great for taking loosely-structured text and turning them into formatted blog posts. https://notes.npilk.com/chatgpt-is-my-ssg

From your post: > ChatGPT responds with a fully-populated HTML template. All I have to do is copy and paste it into a new file in my project, run my custom script, and then push the changes. This actually sounds more troublesome to me than adding a markdown file into a Git repo somewhere, and having Hugo/Astro/whatever automagically regenerate all the HTML files from markdown. But that's probably because static site…

The "build step" with Hugo/Astro might be slightly simpler. But as mentioned in the post, I find it surprisingly nice not to have to write strict Markdown. It turns out (at least for me) that formatting with Markdown still feels akin to creating a finished product. It's nice to just be able to type something out without thinking too much and have the LLM "get what you mean".

Re: The End of Eleventy

#152

Post by azangru »

xp84 wrote: post #5

SSGs versus Wordpress is surprisingly still a battle… I’m genuinely shocked at the number of sites on the Net that use Wordpress, dynamically assembling markup with PHP for every page view, risking constant hacking and stuff, when they have a total of like 7 or 100 pages, which could all be pre-rendered to HTML files in roughly 8 seconds on even a junky laptop or X-small ec2 instance. It really is okay. For those who…

> I’m genuinely shocked at the number of sites on the Net that use Wordpress, dynamically assembling markup with PHP for every page view,

What puzzles me about static sites (and I do build them) is how everything gets to be regenerated, even though you update only one file.

Now, imagine that your writing patten is small notes, like on twitter, mastodon, or bluesky. Over time, with this pattern, you will end up with thousands of notes. Is each one deserving of a page? Ideally, yes; because they should be linkable. Does it make sense to regenerate thousands of pages every time you add a note? Dunno.

Then, consider all the aggregation pages. For example, a paginated list of all my notes. Or a paginated list of notes distributed by different categories / tags. How many more pages does this create?

And the static assets that all get to be copied from source to output directory at every build.

And of course, comments. Static sites don't have comments.

I don't know. I think someone who invested into building their own site engines, like Jeremy Keith (https://adactio.com/) have it the best.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#153

Post by peteforde »

pjmlp wrote: post #146
peteforde wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you in spirit. I also think back to that moment a few years ago where everyone suddenly realized that OpenSSL was being developed almost entirely by one dude with very, very little funding. Fundamental building blocks of modern society that might fail because some poor guy worked himself to death in obscurity because he didn't know how to better ask for help. We should all be haunted by this and consciou…

If you open an old Byte or Dr Dobbs magazine, it will be full of ads from companies whose business was utility libraries.

Wait, are you saying that all of my VBXs are likely unsupported at this point?

Re: The End of Eleventy

#154

Post by deadbabe »

MidnightRider39 wrote: post #61
deadbabe wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If using an LLM why bother with python? Go for straight shell scripts.

That’s exactly my plan. Too burned out on the npm ecosystem. I don’t have time to update all that shit constantly for a fucking static HTML page

Exactly, so many people reach for these complex toolings and ecosystems.

Their static pages are just a bunch of fucking text files you can print with some CLI commands.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#155

Post by peteforde »

joenot443 wrote: post #141
peteforde wrote: post #58

Many folks on HN are the exact sorts of people who have lived the thankless popular-enough-to-be-an-unpaid-job solo OSS maintainer dream, so I wonder if you feel as annoyed by the tone of this post as I do. I truly don't understand how the same folks that champion accessibility and humane ideals while humble bragging about working for $5/hour to help get local businesses online can throw so much shade on people who a…

> but I wish they would channel their frustrations into helping to find a sustainable model for OSS creators to make a living wage What are some ways that one might do this?

Kickstarter, Patreon, Etsy and GitHub Sponsors are all very recent inventions. Heck, Youtube being a viable career is an incredibly recent invention.

What I'm saying is that I doubt that any of these are the last word on the topic. Look at how OnlyFans shook up the adult content world, and I don't think that they saw it coming.

I am optimistic that something equally paradigm shifting could occur for makers and OSS maintainers, even if I don't claim to have a vision for how it would work at the moment.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#156

Post by evanelias »

JavierFlores09 wrote: post #55
evanelias wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, one of the original major reasons WordPress became popular was its dynamic nature. It dethroned Movable Type, which was an extremely powerful and extensible static site generator. It's wild to me that this post's timeline makes no mention whatsoever of Movable Type, and at one point it links to another author's post titled "A Complete History of Static: The Beginning to WordPress Headless" which also make…

To my surprise, Movable Type is still being developed even today. Wonder if there's some companies still using it out inertia. I know many moved off of it back when they restricted their free tier

I haven't kept up with it in recent years, but I know it remained popular in Japan for many years longer than elsewhere. AFAIK since 2011 it has been developed by a Japanese company, who acquired Six Apart's former subsidiary there, as well as the brand name.

It's also interesting that so many people in this thread are saying "What I really need is a SSG that also works as a CMS with a GUI" -- that's literally what Movable Type excelled at. Especially versions 4 and 5, which had a FOSS edition. A number of major US media sites were powered by it for years. However because it was written in Perl, that became a huge negative point as Perl fell out of use in the industry.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#157

Post by pjmlp »

peteforde wrote: post #153
pjmlp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you open an old Byte or Dr Dobbs magazine, it will be full of ads from companies whose business was utility libraries.

Wait, are you saying that all of my VBXs are likely unsupported at this point?

Yeah, should have migrated to VB.NET by now.

Dev Express, Sync Fusion, Component Source,.... are still around.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#158

Post by evanelias »

Tomte wrote: post #145
bjackman wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, I had a similar story with Jekyll but my build wasn't containerised. At some point it stopped being compatible with the latest [something. Ruby? Gems? I don't care, just build my fucking HTML templates please] so I just migrated to Hugo. I stuck around on Hugo for quite some time and I've never had any such issues yet, but now I've also wrapped the build in Nix. So yeah I'll do the same - if it ever stops working…

Just last week updating Hugo broke my templates. That‘s happening every few months. They deprecate and then remove or rename template variables like crazy. Great tool, though.

Yeah, I really don't understand why some developers have an extreme compulsion to constantly deprecate and rename things like this, causing massive upgrade headaches to users.

In addition to Hugo, it happens constantly in GoReleaser. In both cases, they're excellent tools, but the unending renaming spree is just awful. Weirdly, both are in the Go ecosystem, which generally values backwards compatibility.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#159

Post by direwolf20 »

pjmlp wrote: post #120
senko wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Subscriptions are the only way to fix piracy. If you're trying to make people cheer for the pirates, you're succeeding.

Some people will never pay, even if it was one euro, single payment.

Yeah. Because they're 14 and don't have a credit card, or they don't have any money, or the price is completely unaffordable (looking at you, IDA) or they hate your software and wish your company would DIAF but are forced to use it for various reasons anyway.

You might as well be nice to the people who will give you money, so that they'll give you money. Being hostile to people who are trying to give you money is rarely a winning business strategy.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#160

Post by ozim »

notpushkin wrote: post #70
ozim wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal people refuse to learn markdown - they want RTF editor. I could understand someone might refuse learning LaTex but markdown is so simple. RTF editing sucks badly if you have to include it in your project. No one wants to specifically pay for implementing it but they also expect it to be there.

> RTF editor Is that what they call WYSIWYG? :eyes:

RTF editor may be part of WYSIWYG solution but it also might be used to edit text that on publication will be looking entirely differently or will be used in various places.
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