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Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

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Re: Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

#151

Last time I touched an Ubuntu system, I had to diagnose why the machine suddenly had no available disk space. 1.5TB in /var/log All from the Firefox snap package complaining every millisecond about some trivial Snap permission. I'm glad I chose an OS without goddamn Snap. It's been unadulterated pain every time I've ever interacted with it.

YES! Snap drove me to debian sid and haven't looked back. Snap is probably fine, but don't force me to use it.

Re: Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

#152
post #143
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is not FUD; the full name, email and the rest were not META/corporations mandated, which are lobbying for it so they can earn money with users' preferences. Get your spyware to somewhere else. If META's business model is not lucrative, is not my problem.

>which are lobbying for it so they can earn money with users' preferences Given it's a field where you can put absolutely anything in (and probably randomize, if you want), how is this different than the situation today, where random sites ask you for your birthday (also unverified)? Moreover Meta already has your birthday. It's already mandated for account creation, so claims of "so they can earn money with users' p…

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Re: Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

#153
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No because as far as we know 26.04 won't enable zswap or zram whereas Windows and MacOS both have memory compression technology of some sort. So Ubuntu will use significantly more memory for most tasks when facing memory pressure. Apparently it's still in discussion but it's April now so seems unlikely. Kind of weird how controversial it is considering DOS had QEMM386 way back in 1987.

QEMM386 for DOS did not have a memory compression feature. Only one of the later versions for Windows 3.1 did.

CPUs really weren't up to the job in the pre-Pentium/PowerPC world. Back then, zip files used to take an appreciable number of seconds to decompress, and there was a market for JPEG viewers written in hand-optimised assembly.

That's why SoftRAM gained infamy - they discovered during testing that swapping was so much faster than compression that the released version simply doubled the Windows swap file size and didn't actually compress RAM at all, despite their claims (and they ended up being sued into oblivion as a result...)

Over on the Mac, RAMDoubler really did do compression but it a) ran like treacle on the 030, b) needed to do a bunch of kernel hacks, so had compatibility issues with the sort of "clever" software that actually required most RAM, and c) PowerMac users tended to have enough RAM anyway.

Disk compression programs were a bit more successful - DiskDoubler, Stacker, DoubleSpace et al. ISTR that Microsoft managed to infringe on Stacker's patents (or maybe even the copyright?) in MS DOS 6.2, and had to hastily release DOS 6.22 with a re-written version free of charge as a result. These were a bit more successful because they coincided with a general reduction in HDD latency that was going on at roughly the same time.

Re: Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also believe that this memory usage might be decreased significantly, but I don't know how much (and how much is worth it). Some RAM usage might be useful, such as caching or for things related with graphics. Some is a cumulative bloat in applications caused by not caring much or duplication of used libraries. But I remember in 2016 Fedora Gnome consumed about 1.6GB of RAM on my PC with 2GB of RAM a decade ago. Con…

Buy why that much? The first computer I bought had 192MB of RAM and I ran a 1600x1200 desktop with 24-bit color. When Windows 2000 came out, all of the transparency effects ran great. Office worked fine, Visual Studio, 1024x768 gaming (I know that’s quite a step down from 1080p). What has changed? Why do I need 10x the RAM to open a handful of terminals and a text editor?

2 Programmers sat at a table. One was a youngster and the other an older guy with a large beard. The old guy was asked: "You. Yeah you. Why the heck did you need 64K of RAM?". The old man replied, "To land on the moon!". Then the youngster was asked: "And you, why oh why did you need 4Gig?". The youngster replied: "To run MS-Word!"

Re: Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also believe that this memory usage might be decreased significantly, but I don't know how much (and how much is worth it). Some RAM usage might be useful, such as caching or for things related with graphics. Some is a cumulative bloat in applications caused by not caring much or duplication of used libraries. But I remember in 2016 Fedora Gnome consumed about 1.6GB of RAM on my PC with 2GB of RAM a decade ago. Con…

Buy why that much? The first computer I bought had 192MB of RAM and I ran a 1600x1200 desktop with 24-bit color. When Windows 2000 came out, all of the transparency effects ran great. Office worked fine, Visual Studio, 1024x768 gaming (I know that’s quite a step down from 1080p). What has changed? Why do I need 10x the RAM to open a handful of terminals and a text editor?

> and I ran a 1600x1200 desktop with 24-bit color

> What has changed? Why do I need 10x the RAM to open a handful of terminals and a text editor?

It’s not a factor of ten, but a 4K monitor has about four times as many pixels. Cached font bitmaps scale with that, photos take more memory, etc.

> When Windows 2000 came out

In those times, when part of a window became uncovered, the OS would ask the application to redraw that part. Nowadays, the OS knows what’s there because it keeps the pixels around, so it can bitblit the pixels in.

Again, not a factor of ten, but it contributes.

The number of background processes likely also increased, and chances are you used to run fewer applications at the same time. Your handful of terminals may be a bit fuller now than it was back then.

Neither of those really explain why you need gigabytes of RAM nowadays, though, but they didn’t explain why Windows 2000 needed whatever it needed at its time, either.

The main real reason is “because we can afford to”.

Re: Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

#156

I hear a lot from linux users that found gtk 2 era on x11 as pretty close to perfect. I know i had run ubuntu and after boot it used far less than 1GB. The desktop experience was perhaps even slightly more polished than what we have today. Not much has fundamentally changed except the bloat and a regression on UX where they started chasing fads. I suppose the most major change on RAM usage is electron and the bloated…

That's rose-tinted. I remember specifically switching to KDE because GTK apps of the day segfaulted all the time. Unfortunately KDE then screwed things up massively with Plasma (remember the universally loathed kidney bean?) and it's really only recovered recently.

And to say the desktop experience was more polished than what we have now is laughable. I remember that you couldn't have more than one application playing sound at the same time. At one point you had to manually configure Xfree86 to be aware that your mouse had a middle button. And good luck getting anything vaguely awkward like WiFi or suspend-to-ram working.

The Linux desktop is in a vastly better position now, even taking the Wayland mess into account.

Re: Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

#157
post #152
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>which are lobbying for it so they can earn money with users' preferences Given it's a field where you can put absolutely anything in (and probably randomize, if you want), how is this different than the situation today, where random sites ask you for your birthday (also unverified)? Moreover Meta already has your birthday. It's already mandated for account creation, so claims of "so they can earn money with users' p…

[flagged]

>Keep gaslighting:

This is against HN guidelines: " Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

>The contents of the field will be protected from modification except by users with root privileges.

So... most users?

Re: Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

#158
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline is clickbait and the acknowledgement is LLM

I also feel bad for human em dash fans…

It isn't about the X emdash it's about the Y

It's slightly off from llm content but reads like someone touched it up afterwards

Re: Ubuntu now requires more RAM than Windows 11

#160
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just logged in to my MacBook Air M2 (24GB RAM) with no programs open and it’s reserving 8.3GB of RAM and using 500MB of swap. My Framework laptop running CachyOS with KDE Plasma with nothing open except System Monitor reserves 4GB with 500MB in swap (I enabled swap for sleep to hibernate, normally there’s no swap). Reserving RAM doesn’t mean there’s a performance problem. Most of the things you’re talking about in…

> [1] I have to assume you’re talking about some third party antimalware program because the Microsoft one absolutely does not behave how you describe. Editing without specifying that you have edited your reply is not very good, you know. But okay. Actually, I'm talking about the Windows-shipped Microsoft Defender process (at least it seems to come from Microsoft Defender). I have not seen anything third-party instal…

Does it behave like this all the time or just at specific moments?

I find on my Windows system it's only doing things when specific actions are happening.

Right now the antimalware executable process is using 196.4 MB of memory and 0% CPU for me as I type this.

When I download an executable from the Internet and run it, the CPU usage spikes to 8-10% briefly and the RAM usage goes up by 30MB or so.

I have a much higher-end CPU than that, 6 cores 12 threads (AMD Ryzen 5600X3D)

In my experience the executable is pretty much doing nothing unless I'm opening up an exe that's trying to elevate privileges or if it's doing an active periodic scan.

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