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Qwen3.6-Plus: Towards real world agents

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Re: Qwen3.6-Plus: Towards real world agents

#151

Post by array_key_first »

nickvec wrote: post #63
Alifatisk wrote: post #57

I understand peoples reactions of Qwen team comparing against Opus 4.5 instead of 4.6. And them comparing against Gemini Pro 3.0 instead of 3.1. But calling it misleading is a bit of stretch in my eyes, people here are acting like we immediately forgot how previous generations performed just because a new version is released. This field is going in a incredible pace, the providers release a new model every quarter or…

I think it’s more the principle of deception that upsets people. Imagine if Apple released a new iPhone and publicly compared its specs to some previous gen Android. It’s not in good faith.

That's because Android phones release every year. If they released every couple months then I doubt it would appear that way.

Re: Qwen3.6-Plus: Towards real world agents

#152

Post by try-working »

For anyone that believes Chinese labs will stop open sourcing their models, let me tell you why that won't happen.

First, try signing up for Z.ai's coding plan. I know how to but I bet you won't be able to.

The absolute disaster that is Z.ai's internet presence shows that these small labs have no ability to market themselves and drive direct sales.

For marketing, they lack capabilities, and releasing open models is the only way for them to remain in the conversation.

For sales, they rely on distribution via OpenRouter, OpenCode etc. Interest with their users is driven by open model performance.

Open sourcing for Chinese labs is not some large national scheme. It is their only way to commercialization.

Re: Qwen3.6-Plus: Towards real world agents

#153

Post by rogerrogerr »

try-working wrote: post #152

For anyone that believes Chinese labs will stop open sourcing their models, let me tell you why that won't happen. First, try signing up for Z.ai's coding plan. I know how to but I bet you won't be able to. The absolute disaster that is Z.ai's internet presence shows that these small labs have no ability to market themselves and drive direct sales. For marketing, they lack capabilities, and releasing open models is t…

Well, can’t they just direct their model to do some marketing for them?

Only partially tongue in cheek - if it’s not good at marketing itself, that seems like a red flag for capabilities?

Re: Qwen3.6-Plus: Towards real world agents

#155

Post by conception »

bredren wrote: post #99
threetonesun wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They compared their M-series chips to older Intel Macs for a while, likely to target users who were still on Intel chips. If they released a lower cost iPhone and compared it to a previous gen Android I could see the reasoning for it. It's not deception if it's a valid comparison and people just fail to understand what's being compared. Now, is it mildly deceptive because all of the companies using incredibly confusi…

Apple continues to compare to prior versions of Apple Silicon. I suspect it is a mix of trying to provide useful, realistic upgrade information and numbers that still sound good for those not paying attention. I don't think any org doing this is necessarily being deceptive, so long as there's some reasonable basis for the chosen comparable(s). For example, comparing a new iPhone to a prior Android phone might make se…

Apple doesn’t compare themselves to Android the same way Coke doesn’t compare themselves to Pepsi.

Re: Qwen3.6-Plus: Towards real world agents

#156

Post by mikrotikker »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #108
echelon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not interested in adopting an inferior closed source weight from a geopolitical rival. The open source weights argument was the one thing China had going and that I was seriously cheering them on for. They could have been our saviors and disrupted the US tech giants - and if it was open, I'd have welcomed it. Now they show their true colors. They want to train models on our engineering to replace us, while simult…

Whereas I as a Canadian am absolutely eager to see a serious competitor from a rival to the US because sending money south to Anthropic and OpenAI who think it's ok to spy on (or worse) their non-American customers, and are headquartered in a country that is trying to crush my country's economy, interfere in our domestic politics, and put us out of work and making threats on political allies. I'd prefer them to be op…

You're giving up the rest of your country to a geopolitical rival from a separate region, in a separate hemisphere with smiling expansionist goals, even allowing armed Chinese security to protect Chinese installations in country. So why not give the rest of your country to China.

It will help them get a good flank on the USA such that even when that temporarily embarrassed country gets a leader you, and the rest of the world do like, it will be too late to do anything.

A perfect definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face laid bare for all to see.

Re: Qwen3.6-Plus: Towards real world agents

#158

Post by polski-g »

try-working wrote: post #152

For anyone that believes Chinese labs will stop open sourcing their models, let me tell you why that won't happen. First, try signing up for Z.ai's coding plan. I know how to but I bet you won't be able to. The absolute disaster that is Z.ai's internet presence shows that these small labs have no ability to market themselves and drive direct sales. For marketing, they lack capabilities, and releasing open models is t…

China can't get good chips. But I don't understand why they can't license their closed source models to US inference providers so we can get more than 80% reliability on their models on OpenRouter.

Re: Qwen3.6-Plus: Towards real world agents

#159

Post by zwaps »

mikrotikker wrote: post #156
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas I as a Canadian am absolutely eager to see a serious competitor from a rival to the US because sending money south to Anthropic and OpenAI who think it's ok to spy on (or worse) their non-American customers, and are headquartered in a country that is trying to crush my country's economy, interfere in our domestic politics, and put us out of work and making threats on political allies. I'd prefer them to be op…

You're giving up the rest of your country to a geopolitical rival from a separate region, in a separate hemisphere with smiling expansionist goals, even allowing armed Chinese security to protect Chinese installations in country. So why not give the rest of your country to China. It will help them get a good flank on the USA such that even when that temporarily embarrassed country gets a leader you, and the rest of t…

The US under Trump is politically and strategically almost identical to China, and can be trusted about the same.

And then, compared to China, the US acts overtly hostile: threatening us with war, starting a war in order to collapse energy supplies outside of the US. Opportunistic beyond even China, much more hostile.

Will the US even be a democracy in two years? Is it now?

Nah man, balancing between China and the US is the only thing a smaller country can do in order not to be crushed

Re: Qwen3.6-Plus: Towards real world agents

#160

Post by try-working »

polski-g wrote: post #158
try-working wrote: post #152

For anyone that believes Chinese labs will stop open sourcing their models, let me tell you why that won't happen. First, try signing up for Z.ai's coding plan. I know how to but I bet you won't be able to. The absolute disaster that is Z.ai's internet presence shows that these small labs have no ability to market themselves and drive direct sales. For marketing, they lack capabilities, and releasing open models is t…

China can't get good chips. But I don't understand why they can't license their closed source models to US inference providers so we can get more than 80% reliability on their models on OpenRouter.

I think they already are licensing their biggest models to third party inference providers.
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