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The Cognitive Dark Forest

ryelang.org

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Re: The Cognitive Dark Forest

#151

Post by Dusseldorf »

middayc wrote: post #86
Skyy93 wrote: post #71

This article makes no real sense to me. >You think of something new and express it - through a prompt, through code, through a product - it enters the system. Your novel idea becomes training data. The sheer act of thinking outside the box makes the box bigger. This was the same before, if you had a novel idea and make a product out of it others follow. Especially for LLMs, they are not (till now) learning on the fly…

> This was the same before, if you had a novel idea and make a product out of it others follow. Especially for LLMs, they are not (till now) learning on the fly. Claude Opus 4.6 knowledge cut off was August 2025, so every idea you type in after this date is in the training data but not available, so you only have to be fast enough. Especially LLMs/AI-Agents like Claude enable this speed you need for bringing out some…

> LLM-s are not learning on the fly, but I suspect they do log the conversations, their responses and could also deduce from further interaction if a particular response was satisfactory to the user.

Seems like this is hard to reliably do across the board. Sometimes when I stop interacting it's because it nailed the solution, and sometimes it's because it went so poorly that I opted to bin it and do it myself. Maybe all of the mid conversation planning and feedback is enough though.

Re: The Cognitive Dark Forest

#153

Post by annie511266728 »

RajT88 wrote: post #83
Skyy93 wrote: post #71

This article makes no real sense to me. >You think of something new and express it - through a prompt, through code, through a product - it enters the system. Your novel idea becomes training data. The sheer act of thinking outside the box makes the box bigger. This was the same before, if you had a novel idea and make a product out of it others follow. Especially for LLMs, they are not (till now) learning on the fly…

> This was the same before, if you had a novel idea and make a product out of it others follow. You've almost captured the full picture of it. If you have a great idea, it's not going to be self-evidently enough of a great idea until you've proved it can make money. That's the hard part which comes at great personal, professional and financial risk. Algorithms are cheap. Sure, they could use your LLM history to figur…

I don't think the risk is that they copy your app.

The risk is that they make the category a built-in feature in something people already use. At that point, copying the product and taking the customers start to look like the same problem.

Re: The Cognitive Dark Forest

#155

Post by jrowen »

It is also asymmetric. If you announce your presence, even if 4 out of 5 civs that notice you don’t annihilate you immediately (but they probably should), the fifth might. It’s just a probability game, with permadeath.

So hiding is the most rational - the only - strategy of survival.

This is a paranoid and cynical strategy that doesn't win out in the known history of life. What works is grow, expand, mingle, maintain - assimilate but don't annihilate.

Re: The Cognitive Dark Forest

#156

Post by mmaunder »

The only barrier to a flourishing truly open source AI model ecosystem is the cost of training a highly capable model. This will get as cheap as it is to buy a computer and contribute to Linux. OSSAI movements will replace traditional OSS. And as with software, the early Slackware-like versions will be poor substitutes, but it will get better and then dominate.

Re: The Cognitive Dark Forest

#157

Post by N_Lens »

jrowen wrote: post #155

It is also asymmetric. If you announce your presence, even if 4 out of 5 civs that notice you don’t annihilate you immediately (but they probably should), the fifth might. It’s just a probability game, with permadeath. So hiding is the most rational - the only - strategy of survival. This is a paranoid and cynical strategy that doesn't win out in the known history of life. What works is grow, expand, mingle, maintain…

Most leaders in the Western/developed world have similar paranoid thought processes.

Re: The Cognitive Dark Forest

#158

Post by cryptonector »

N_Lens wrote: post #157
jrowen wrote: post #155

It is also asymmetric. If you announce your presence, even if 4 out of 5 civs that notice you don’t annihilate you immediately (but they probably should), the fifth might. It’s just a probability game, with permadeath. So hiding is the most rational - the only - strategy of survival. This is a paranoid and cynical strategy that doesn't win out in the known history of life. What works is grow, expand, mingle, maintain…

Most leaders in the Western/developed world have similar paranoid thought processes.

Do China's or Russia's leaders not?

Re: The Cognitive Dark Forest

#160

Post by cryptonector »

mekoka wrote: post #140
Nevermark wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing any novel idea has never been so costly. I am not arguing against sharing. Sharing can be for the greater good. But as you note, things have changed. We could reasonably assume a genuinely significant good idea, set free, might go in the direction we shoved it for a minute. Or fade into inaccessibility. Not any more.

You seem to be agreeing, not arguing, with the person you're replying to.

Indeed. So?
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