It sounds interesting but the main selling point doesn’t really reasonate: If you haven’t resolved conflicts then it probably doesn’t compile and of course tests won’t pass, so I don’t see any point in publishing that change? Maybe the commit is useful as a temporary state locally, but that seems of limited use? Nowadays I’d ask a coding agent to figure out how to rebase a local branch to the latest published version…
The future of version control
151–160 of 407 posts
Re: The future of version control
#152Re: The future of version control
#153Re: The future of version control
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
That still have an issue with the vocabulary. Things like "theirs/our" is still out of touch but it's already better than a loose spatial analogy on some representation of the DAG. Something like base, that is "common base", looks far more apt to my mind. In the same vein, endogenous/exogenous would be far more precise, or at least aligned with the concern at stake. Maybe "local/alien" might be a less pompous vocabul…
After 15 years i still cant remember which is which. I get annoyed every time. Maybe I should invest 15 minutes finally to remember properly
Re: The future of version control
#155Anyway, I wanted to suggest a radical idea based on my experience:
Merges are the wrong primitive.
What organizations (whethr centralized or distributed projects) might actually need is:
1) Graph Database - of Streams and Relations
2) Governance per Stream - eg ACLs
A code base should be automatically turned into a graph database (functions calling other functions, accessing configs etc) so we know exactly what affects what.
The concept of what is “too near” each other mentioned in the article is not necessarily what leads to conflicts. Conflicts actually happen due to conflicting graph topology and propagating changes.
People should be able to clone some stream (with permission) and each stream (node in the graph) can be versioned.
Forking should happen into workspaces. Workspaces can be GOVERNED. Publishing some version of a stream just means relating it to your stream. Some people might publish one version, others another.
Rebasing is a first-class primitive, rather than a form of merging. A merge is an extremely privileged operation from a governance point of view, where some actor can just “push” (or “merge”) thousands of commits. The more commits, the more chance of conflicts.
The same problem occurs with CRDTs. I like CRDTs, but reconciling a big netsplit will result in merging strategies that create lots of unintended semantic side effects.
Instead, what if each individual stream was guarded by policies, there was a rate limit of changes, and people / AIs rejected most proposals. But occasionally they allow it with M of N sign offs.
Think of chatgpt chats that are used to modify evolving artifacts. People and bots working together. The artifacts are streams. And yes, this can even be done for codebases. It isnt about how “near” things are in a file. Rather it is about whether there is a conflict on a graph. When I modify a specific function or variable, the system knows all of its callers downstream. This is true for many other things besides coding too. We can also have AI workflows running 24/7 to try out experiments as a swarm in sandboxes, generate tests and commit the results that pass. But ultimately, each organization determines whether they want to rebase their stream relations to the next version of something or not.
That is what I’m building now with https://safebots.ai
PS: if anyone is interested in this kind of stuff, feel free to schedule a calendly meeting w me on that site. I just got started recently, but I’m dogfooding my own setup and using AI swarms which accelerates the work tremendously.
Re: The future of version control
#156I'm confused about what this solves. They give the example of someone editing a function and someone deleting the same function and claim that the merge never fails and then go on to demonstrate that indeed rightly the merges still fails. There are still merge markers in the sources. What is the improvement exactly?
Yeah, the author fails to present his case even in the intro > A CRDT merge always succeeds by definition, so there are no conflicts in the traditional sense — the key insight is that changes should be flagged as conflicting when they touch each other, giving you informative conflict presentation on top of a system which never actually fails. This project works that out. It has clear contradiction. Crdt always succee…
> The code in this project was written artisanally. This README was not.
Re: The future of version control
#157What CRDT's solve is conflicts at the system level. Not at the semantic level. 2 or more engineers setting a var to a different value cannot be handled by a CRDT. Engineer A intended value = 1 Engineer B intended value = 2 CRDT picks 2 The outcome could be semantically wrong. It doesn't reflect the intent. I think the primary issue with git and every other version control is the terrible names for everything. pull, p…
> It would be incredibly useful if before you were about to edit a file, the version control system would warn you that someone else has made changes to it already or are actively working on it. In large teams, this sort of automation would reduce conflicts, as long as humans agree to not touch the same file. This would also reduce the amount of quality regressions that result from bad conflict resolutions. Bringing…
Re: The future of version control
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
git checkout mybranch git rebase main A conflict happens. Now "ours" is main and "theirs" is mybranch , even though from your perspective you're still on mybranch. Git isn't, however.
Ah that’s fair. This is why I would do a `git merge main` instead of a rebase here.
Not a problem if you are a purist on linear history.
Re: The future of version control
#159I don't really get the upside of focus on CRDTs. The semantic problem with conflicts exists either way. You get a consistent outcome and a slightly better description of the conflict, but in a way that possibly interleaves changes, which I don't think is an improvement at all. I am completely rebase-pilled. I believe merge commits should be avoided at all costs, every commit should be a fast forward commit, and a uni…
I used to use rebase much more than merge but have grown to be more nuanced over the years: Merge commits from main into a feature branch are totally fine and easier to do than rebasing. After your feature branch is complete you can do one final main-to-feature-branch merge and then merge the feature branch into main with a squash commit. When updating any branch from remote, I always do a pull rebase to avoid merge…
Whether this is valuable is up to you, but IMO I'd say it's better practice than not. People do dumb things with the history and it's harder to do dumb things if the commits are self-contained. Additionally if a feature branch includes multiple commits + merges I'd much rather they squash that into a single commit (or a couple logical commits) instead of keeping what's likely a mess of a history anyway.
Re: The future of version control
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
iirc ours is always the commit the merge is starting from. the issue is that with a merge your current commit is the merging commit while with a rebase it is reversed. I suspect that this could be because the rebase command is implemented as a serie of merges/cherry-picks from the target branch.
git checkout mybranch git rebase main Now git takes main and starts cloning (cherry-picking, as you said) commits from mybranch on top of it. From git's viewpoint it's working on top of main, so if a conflict occurs, main is "ours" and mybranch is "theirs". But from your viewpoint you're still on mybranch, and indeed are left on mybranch when the rebase is complete. (It's a different mybranch, of course; once the reb…
git checkout master #check out the branch to apply commits to
git rebase mybranch #Apply all commits from mybranch
Now I just write rebase-current-branch
and it does what I want: fetches origin/master and rebases my working branch on top of it.But "ours"/"theirs" still keeps tripping me up.