Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Warranty Void If Regenerated

nearzero.software

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 353 posts

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#151

Post by defrost »

hatsix wrote: post #132
CamperBob2 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'd have been ok if things fell more in their direction... I'm not saying "clear win", but a middle ground that had the machines do the things they're best at while letting humans do the quality work.

> but a middle ground that had the machines do the things they're best at while letting humans do the quality work.

By arguing for letting humans work, particularly quality work, you're not especially finding a middle ground, more adopting the 1811 position of the OG Luddites who were opposed to being put out of work.

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#152

Post by fluoridation »

rustystump wrote: post #149
fluoridation wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because code isn't a way to communicate ideas, it's a way to specify behavior. Text, drawings, video, and music are means for brains to connect with each other. When you read or view or listen to something generated you're not connecting with any other brain. No idea has been transmitted to you. The feeling is analogous to speaking on the phone and only realizing several minutes later that the call was dropped.…

No, code is a way of communicating ideas, or more correctly information. All languages convey information. All languages convey ideas.

Did you read past the first sentence? The kind of information that a piece of code transmits is fundamentally different from that which is transmitted by a sentence or a song.

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#153

Post by dwd »

fluoridation wrote: post #140
dwd wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an interesting dichotomy where we express an uncanny-valley revulsion to AI-generated text, art, video and music; yet we seemingly go with the AI-generated code. Personally I have an uneasiness with it and are correspondingly cautious. Often after a review and edits it loses that "smell". I kind-of felt the same about NPM and package managers for a long time before using it became obligatory (for lack of a b…

It's because code isn't a way to communicate ideas, it's a way to specify behavior. Text, drawings, video, and music are means for brains to connect with each other. When you read or view or listen to something generated you're not connecting with any other brain. No idea has been transmitted to you. The feeling is analogous to speaking on the phone and only realizing several minutes later that the call was dropped.…

I tend to disagree that code can't be a way to communicate an idea. Sure, I might struggle to edict an emotion in the reader (excluding confusion or frustration) but I feel it is a way to describe ideas, model constructs and processes, etc.

With AI-generated text where there is this disconnect between the audience and the prompter who has an idea but not the skill to express it. Would you say reading an English translation of Dostoevsky is similar because you're connecting with the interpreter rather than the actual author? Or something as simple as an Asterix comic where the English translation is rarely literal but uses different English plays on words?

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#154

Post by arikrahman »

donatj wrote: post #61

I'm trying to sort out my own emotions on this. I did not realize this was AI generated while reading it until I came to the comments here... And I feel genuinely had? Like "oh wow, you got me"... I don't like this feeling. It's certainly the longest thing (I know about) I've taken the time to read that was AI generated. The writing struck me as genuinely good, like something out of The New Yorker. I found the story…

Well, FWIW, LLMs are specified to infer and fill in the blanks of books. It makes the headlines now and again that publishers put AI companies on the hook for unauthorized use, The New Yorker included.

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#155

Post by idiotsecant »

y0eswddl wrote: post #143
abeindoria wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you see it's somewhat unreasonable? As if it was written by the author you disliked, and until you knew of the fact, you quite enjoyed it. Quite honestly, I do that sometimes too -- but I _know_ that it's unreasonable.

hard to form an emotional connection with the emotionless

Says parent post, while thinking a stack of rocks that looks a little like a fat raccoon is kind of cute.

Humans are designed to form emotional connections with non emotional things. Its sort of our whole deal.

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#156

Post by idiotsecant »

hatsix wrote: post #132
CamperBob2 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'd have been ok if things fell more in their direction... I'm not saying "clear win", but a middle ground that had the machines do the things they're best at while letting humans do the quality work.

Yeah, that's a fine sentiment in the general, but let's hear some specifics.

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#157

Post by fluoridation »

dwd wrote: post #153
fluoridation wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because code isn't a way to communicate ideas, it's a way to specify behavior. Text, drawings, video, and music are means for brains to connect with each other. When you read or view or listen to something generated you're not connecting with any other brain. No idea has been transmitted to you. The feeling is analogous to speaking on the phone and only realizing several minutes later that the call was dropped.…

I tend to disagree that code can't be a way to communicate an idea. Sure, I might struggle to edict an emotion in the reader (excluding confusion or frustration) but I feel it is a way to describe ideas, model constructs and processes, etc. With AI-generated text where there is this disconnect between the audience and the prompter who has an idea but not the skill to express it. Would you say reading an English trans…

>I tend to disagree that code can't be a way to communicate an idea.

I wouldn't go as far as can't, but in general it won't be, and if any ideas are indeed communicated, they will be impersonal.

>With AI-generated text where there is this disconnect between the audience and the prompter who has an idea but not the skill to express it. Would you say reading an English translation of Dostoevsky is similar because you're connecting with the interpreter rather than the actual author? Or something as simple as an Asterix comic where the English translation is rarely literal but uses different English plays on words?

I can think of a better example. In comic circles there's the rewrite, which is when an editor isn't fluent in the original language, and so instead of actually translating, they just rewrite all the dialogue to something that matches the action. People (generally) hate rewrites. Unknowingly reading a rewrite provokes a similar feeling of betrayal that unknowingly reading LLM output provokes.

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#158

Post by dwd »

Stwerner wrote: post #107
furyofantares wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm particularly allergic to LLM-isms, if you look at my comment history I'm constantly complaining about LLM-written text. I am genuinely quite surprised to have read that much LLM-generated text and been happy to do so. I am also extremely interested in thinking about where software development is going, so I really appreciated the ideas that went into this. Since you seem open to feedback, I want to add that I fel…

Ahh cool, I'll dig through your comment history tonight :) I will say, I suspect we're only in the early stages of the LLM's writing equivalent of "autotune" while we all collectively figure out what's tasteful use, what isn't, what it might be like to use autotune as an instrument itself, and then what gets overused. So it'll probably get a lot worse before it gets better. And thanks for the note about the images, I…

I think in this you are the autotune, trying to make the raw LLM writing in tune and palatable.

I did read your previous story (not as polished but still interesting) and noticed in the image that linked to "beautiful but the Mandarin module has a tone recognition bug that makes it nearly impossible for non-native speakers", that the tone bug was Hebrew rather than Chinese characters. Interesting...I might have a look again and translate.

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#159

Post by _dwt »

abeindoria wrote: post #138
_dwt wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a major bummer. When I first read the story (a few days ago, maybe?) I thought it was an interesting metaphor that didn't quite line up with the observed details of software development with AI. I assumed the writer was a journalist or author with a non-technical background trying to explore a more "utopian" vision of where trends could go. Without the inferred writer, it's much less interesting to me, except as…

Surely you see it's somewhat unreasonable? As if it was written by the author you disliked, and until you knew of the fact, you quite enjoyed it. Quite honestly, I do that sometimes too -- but I _know_ that it's unreasonable.

For me, “interestingly wrong” becomes just “wrong” without human thinking behind it. I wasn’t bowled over by the prose, I just thought it was an uncommon take and didn’t twig the signs it was Claude product.

Re: Warranty Void If Regenerated

#160

Post by zarzavat »

abeindoria wrote: post #150
y0eswddl wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hard to form an emotional connection with the emotionless

Eh, People form emotional connections with inanimate objects, so I'm unsure if that's a good enough argument tbf.

A djungelskog is not a threat. AI threatens my livelihood and my humanity. The worst part is I have to use it regardless because I would be uncompetitive without it.
Post reply on HN